Sink Qi into Dantian

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:37 am

So, big topic, let's go:

What does it mean as a human to sink Qi into Dantian.
There is a reason why I'm not saying "Lower Dantian".

Qi is the part of reality you feel is real. Whatever you feel is Qi. Usually people identify themselves with this feeling, getting stuck here and there. But in the end Qi isn't of any importance, it's just the messenger between Heaven and Earth.

Sinking Qi into Dantian as physical practice is dropping your actual sense and perception of reality into the Lower Dantian. Here you are stable, calm and protected. Guarding the center. When this works, your worries will boil down to taking in and spitting out. You learn to tune into the lower brain.

But the body needs practice. Divide Yin Yang by stretching, then unify by contracting. When dividing and unifying disappear, the body is closed in on itself and simultaneously open to all force transmission.
This is connecting bones and tendons.

Stretching creates space for creation to happen, contracting intermingles and fuses the components.

So, Qi sinks into Dantian... The Heart-Mind sinks downwards and gets calm to allow Heaven and Earth proper creation.

Once the ego is broken down and accepts it's place in creation and the unity of everything, Heaven can work more easily in your favor.

Sinking Qi is necessary for Shen to rise. Having Qi stuck in your torso doesn't allow the organs important for the substance of your body to work properly.
The substance of the body includes the brain.

Making yourself small to become big...



What do you have to say about this? ;D
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby everything on Sun Jul 26, 2020 6:59 am

It is what it says, literally. As the "classics" say, you should do this first. "Neigong" - the "nei" part comes from "neidan" for non-martial purposes. A lot (most?) of people interested in martial arts will tend to forget that or never know, so make up a shit ton of physical things (all good things for what they are) and misinterpret that "sink qi to dantian" is some kind of linguistic expression of that, and then they are caught up in language questions as well. Overly complicated and red herrings. It is what it says.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby greytowhite on Sun Jul 26, 2020 12:32 pm

Yeah you have to be able to turn the light of awareness around and downward to even think about mixing heaven and earth. Easier to do it seated, then standing, then moving. A lot of the early neigong stuff is just so your seated meditations are less painful.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby yeniseri on Mon Jul 27, 2020 8:21 am

1. Waist is axis
2. Relax waist along with knee/kua inguinal area.
3. Relax gluteal area (start with zhanzhuang posture) hands at sides imaging eggs at armpit.
4. Open body

Everything will fall into place.
A starting place, perhaps, is to be aware that "chest breathing" is shallow and "lowering" breathing
to abdomen assists with sinking qi to dantian (qihai) location, It starts mechanically by postural awareness/attentionand over time (unknown) nothing to think about
It happens 'naturally' butit has to be 'trained"!

p.s. I know my use of words may be off or appaering incoherent but thigs work when motion sets in place
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:36 am

To be fair, I know little of higher stages of cultivation. I can't astral project, create talismans, work with roaming spirit entities... I still have a physical body, so I know there is a long way to go.

Yeniseri, I agree with you. It's practiced free flowing. Once you reach out to Heaven and Earth the breaths draws head and feet towards each other. Yes it's very mechanical and you can get into the anatomy. I was trying to explain some of my experiences. The body gets more and more elastic and free...

What I found very important:

Stretch the jaws excessively. Pull the ears and nose. Working on the jaw can be very painful. Feeling the auditory channel stretching is frightening and funny.

Open the neck and throat, shoulders, chest and upper back side to reach the lungs. The collarbones become accessible via the jaw. The lungs hang off the collars.

I'm still working on ribs. But my lats feel huge compared to earlier. Spine pops a lot.

The iliosacral joints, kidneys, bladder and pelvic floor kind of attach to breathing. Tissue moving. Squat, work the legs every day, train the footarches and toes.

Before this gets too long, another quick perspective:

In many schools a sort of heaviness is sought after, not to say lightness is excluded. Making your self heavy means taking more burden by your own decision. A noble act. This draws helpful and not so helpful spirits to you. The clue is separating the bad from the good ones.

By emptying the Heart, the self association domain or field is left open... Your Shen observes and commands as a literal spirit guide. Your sense of being alive resides in the lower Dantian. It's as if you look from the belly, one stage lower than usual somehow. Then you stop thinking conscious thoughts and even in a stream of thoughts you don't identify with anything and remain calm yet alive. This for me came after major stillness.

Then you get to decide which guests to invite and keep, which to be wary of and throw out.

Burdening your self to strengthen noble aspects, being upright and straight yet relaxed and bent.

;D

Yeniseri, I understand you well!
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby charles on Mon Jul 27, 2020 9:48 am

yeniseri wrote:1. Waist is axis



The waist isn't the axis. The central axis usually discussed, without getting too technical, is the vertical one from the top of the head through the perineum to the ground. The waist is what allows body parts to rotate about that axis. It isn't the axis itself.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:05 am

Maybe try thinking of the vertical axis as not just this thin line, but one that is at least as thick as the waist circumference? All the way from top to bottom, then mirror and cross all 3 planes and you got 6 directions.

When talking about body alignment axioms... Not every system was developed with the same purpose in mind, i.e. intents differ. That's why one is called this and the other that.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby charles on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:24 pm

axis
[ˈaksəs]
NOUN
1. an imaginary line about which a body rotates.
"the Earth revolves on its axis once every 24 hours"
synonyms:
center line · vertical · horizontal

2. mathematics
a fixed reference line for the measurement of coordinates.
"the variable that is thought of as a cause is placed on the horizontal axis, and the variable that is thought of as an effect on the vertical axis"

3. a straight central part in a structure to which other parts are connected.

4. anatomy
the second cervical vertebra, below the atlas at the top of the backbone.


Quigga wrote:Maybe try thinking of the vertical axis as not just this thin line, but one that is at least as thick as the waist circumference?


Possibly this is consistent with 3., above. It would probably be less ambiguous to describe that as an "axle".
Last edited by charles on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:58 pm

Maybe a 3d ball axle?

We talk about sinking qi then letting it sit in unity. When moving there is a flowing-splitting feeling by necessity of anatomy. When moving qi to wake up li to get jin, force is spread out symmetrically across all of the body because we are Sung and connected. This is a 3d feeling and force transmission via fat+water and fascia+bones.
You can see this in unity of iliosacral joints, collar bones and jaw(s, left and right?). Or tailbone, sternum, brain stem.
When one moves left, one also moves to the right. Right is left. Up is down.
You have to connect tendons to bones while seperating soft flesh and membranes from bones. At least that's what it feels like.
If only every part of the body wasn't important, then it wouldn't take so long!

Qi naturally wants to settle down. But we frantically splash our hands in the puddle because we are afraid of seeing our reflection. Wow that is so deep I have to stand up now :P
Last edited by Quigga on Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby everything on Mon Jul 27, 2020 7:52 pm

Just do it.
amateur practices til gets right pro til can't get wrong
/ better approx answer to right q than exact answer to wrong q which can be made precise /
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby charles on Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:29 pm

everything wrote:Just do it.


Pretty much.

One learns by doing: it is experiential. One can be guided by an experienced teacher, which ought to help one get there sooner than later, but, in the end, one just has to do it. Understanding of it comes from the doing. Excessive discussion of it often ends up sounding like bad fortune cookies.
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