Sink Qi into Dantian

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:58 pm

everything wrote:It is what it says, literally. As the "classics" say, you should do this first. "Neigong" - the "nei" part comes from "neidan" for non-martial purposes. A lot (most?) of people interested in martial arts will tend to forget that or never know, so make up a shit ton of physical things (all good things for what they are) and misinterpret that "sink qi to dantian" is some kind of linguistic expression of that, and then they are caught up in language questions as well. Overly complicated and red herrings. It is what it says.


Before you can really sink Qi into Dantian, you need to calm and clean your Heart, otherwise it will stay turbulent...
No need to differentiate Neidan from martial arts, martial arts become Nei Dan if sufficiently practiced and understood. Why would you leave out cultivation of liver, eyes, nails, fascia, killing? The eyes follow the Yang hand... Eyes, force, claws are connected.

Where do you see red herrings?
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:09 pm

greytowhite wrote:Yeah you have to be able to turn the light of awareness around and downward to even think about mixing heaven and earth. Easier to do it seated, then standing, then moving. A lot of the early neigong stuff is just so your seated meditations are less painful.


Turning the light around and letting it stabilize like the Golden Flower Classic says... Very easy, just takes practice...

People identify with the light coming from their eyes, thinking that seeing is an active process on their part. A beam coming from the eye. But actually, the Sun shines on Earth, light gets reflected and enters our eyes, then we create reality inside our heads... Here lies the potential for conflict. If 'my' beam of eye light presses against the Sun's light, there is friction and clouding of the world's needs. That's why you need to let go of your Self, forget your Self, so that there is no tension against the light stablizing in Lower Dantian, i.e. Calm Heart, Cleanse Heart, Sink Qi. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Then, actively being guided by this light in every moment, without resisting at all... That's hard for me.

What seated meditations that build on this do you have in mind?
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:16 pm

charles wrote:
everything wrote:Just do it.


Pretty much.

One learns by doing: it is experiential. One can be guided by an experienced teacher, which ought to help one get there sooner than later, but, in the end, one just has to do it. Understanding of it comes from the doing. Excessive discussion of it often ends up sounding like bad fortune cookies.


Define what excessive discussion is. This one, right ;D I wonder why so many classics were written when just doing it is enough...

Chinese people like to put a lot of meaning into few words. The challenge is to unpack them correctly, plus talking in another language. What's your understanding? Why would one want to Sink Qi in the first place?
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:27 pm

DeusTrismegistus wrote:Qi follows Yi. So this simply means that the awareness or intent must be within the body at the Dantien or center of balance. Qi also means air, so the breath should be abdominal breathing and not chest breathing. Breath like a baby. There is no need to make it complicated. Qi will then sink to the lower dantien.

Whatever you feel is not Qi. Qi feels like Qi. There are different kinds, but a table I grab with my hands, is not Qi.

The breaking down, or dissolution of the ego is not necessary or wanted. I assume that is what you mean. The ego is always present and necessary. What is desired is to allow the ego to operate within where it is necessary, but not operate where it is not necessary.

You seem to be attached to a lot of the spiritual aspects of meditation practice. These are ok, but keeping things simple is much better in the long run. If you think you know something, you probably don't know what you think you know.



Qi follows Yi, correct. What is Yi?

Have fun always actively gazing into your Lower Dantian, in everyday life, 24/7. You can't function like that. Also, this is forceful use of Yi (as in striving), especially when done too long... and especially when one focues only on one point or area. Actively gazing at Lower Dantian is at the very beginning.....
Didn't you write in a thread about Tummo/bumpachen, where you said that it releases gases inside you? This kind of stagnation happens when one practices wrong for too long. No offense. Stagnating Qi in the bowels.

Breaking the ego down, dissolution, is absolutely wanted and needed. You need to do it at least once to get it. The ego is not always present and neccessary. Why would people want to lose themselves in fulfilling activities, watching a movie, having sex, fighting...? To get this small release from their ego always saying that it actually exists and defines their lives. Cultivation is every day life.

The ego operation is neccessary for staying sane in modern society, at least for some time... But you can learn to let go. Plus, people tend to think you're insane or psychotic when you confront them with unfiltered cultivation. So yeah, the ego is absoooolutely neccessary :-X

I won't comment on your last paragraph ;D
Last edited by Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 1:48 pm

Trick wrote:
wiesiek wrote:" -drink-
does that say bleach ?


It says 'belch', sound word for burping. Spitting out, vomiting bad stuff.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Thu Aug 20, 2020 2:51 pm

Re: the "grabbing table is table not Qi'. Do you feel the table or do you feel the feeling of feeling the table? Small but important difference.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Trick on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:23 pm

Quigga wrote:
Trick wrote:
wiesiek wrote:" -drink-
does that say bleach ?


It says 'belch', sound word for burping. Spitting out, vomiting bad stuff.

The little yellow fellow looks happy ingesting the bad stuff
Last edited by Trick on Thu Aug 20, 2020 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:58 am

1) You may know something about my personal life...
2) Letting go of the face is pretty hard for me.
3) Do you mean one shouldn't bother whether what's coming in is good or bad?
4) Without taking in, you can't spit out ???
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 22, 2020 2:24 am

I just wondered what that yellow thing was ‘saying’ when drinking from the bottle....but now reading your four points maybe there was a deeper meaning on sinking the Qi from the poster to include that drinking smiley in his post?
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby wiesiek on Mon Aug 24, 2020 1:12 am

:) when pill of qi has been swollen
you may bleach out uneven content...
Joyful Fruits of the Live
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:45 am

Still on front page so thread isn't dead. :P
Quigga wrote:
DeusTrismegistus wrote:Qi follows Yi. So this simply means that the awareness or intent must be within the body at the Dantien or center of balance. Qi also means air, so the breath should be abdominal breathing and not chest breathing. Breath like a baby. There is no need to make it complicated. Qi will then sink to the lower dantien.

Whatever you feel is not Qi. Qi feels like Qi. There are different kinds, but a table I grab with my hands, is not Qi.

The breaking down, or dissolution of the ego is not necessary or wanted. I assume that is what you mean. The ego is always present and necessary. What is desired is to allow the ego to operate within where it is necessary, but not operate where it is not necessary.

You seem to be attached to a lot of the spiritual aspects of meditation practice. These are ok, but keeping things simple is much better in the long run. If you think you know something, you probably don't know what you think you know.



Qi follows Yi, correct. What is Yi?

Have fun always actively gazing into your Lower Dantian, in everyday life, 24/7. You can't function like that. Also, this is forceful use of Yi (as in striving), especially when done too long... and especially when one focues only on one point or area. Actively gazing at Lower Dantian is at the very beginning.....
Didn't you write in a thread about Tummo/bumpachen, where you said that it releases gases inside you? This kind of stagnation happens when one practices wrong for too long. No offense. Stagnating Qi in the bowels.

Breaking the ego down, dissolution, is absolutely wanted and needed. You need to do it at least once to get it. The ego is not always present and neccessary. Why would people want to lose themselves in fulfilling activities, watching a movie, having sex, fighting...? To get this small release from their ego always saying that it actually exists and defines their lives. Cultivation is every day life.

The ego operation is neccessary for staying sane in modern society, at least for some time... But you can learn to let go. Plus, people tend to think you're insane or psychotic when you confront them with unfiltered cultivation. So yeah, the ego is absoooolutely neccessary :-X

I won't comment on your last paragraph ;D


You should probably stop trying to come on a forum and act like a teacher when you obviously don't know what you are talking about. You should also probably work on emptying your cup, if you want to have an honest discussion it helps not to make assumptions and put words in other people's mouths.

You don't even understand what the ego is, how can you dissolve it? If people think you are insane, maybe that says more about yourself than them.
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bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle. -- Winston Churchill
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Quigga on Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:01 am

Thank you, much appreciated and I will try to learn.
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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby TimG on Tue Nov 24, 2020 7:45 pm

charles wrote:
everything wrote:Just do it.


Pretty much.

One learns by doing: it is experiential. One can be guided by an experienced teacher, which ought to help one get there sooner than later, but, in the end, one just has to do it. Understanding of it comes from the doing. Excessive discussion of it often ends up sounding like bad fortune cookies.


Hi Charles,

For a relative newcomer, is it worth the time and effort to just do it? Tough question I realize, but, in your view, is traditional Taijiquan a worthwhile thing to invest one’s time In? Is there someplace you get to, in line with running a marathon, bench pressing 300 lbs or playing Bach’s Chaconne on the guitar? Is there a definable skill one acquires? I’m still not sure.

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Re: Sink Qi into Dantian

Postby Giles on Wed Nov 25, 2020 3:58 am

My name isn’t Charles, it’s Giles, but seeing as how that sounds pretty much the same on a stormy night, I’ll provide an answer as well.

1. “Traditional” Taijiquan can still be a pretty broad and fuzzy spectrum. Even within Chen style (Charles is a Chen-style man) there are fairly disparate flavours, approaches, methodologies etc.

2. Can TJQ be worthwhile in the long term? I’d say you can get an amazing amount out of it, assuming that you train reasonably hard and consistently over a longer period. For the body (including working on strength and reducing ‘wear and tear’), for the mind, for other health aspects, for fighting and for self-defence (which is much broader than ‘fighting’), even for your ability to interact with others in more effective and constructive ways. – Although when it comes to the less tangible benefits, you need to be prepared to let yourself be changed, to be able to view yourself critically and to ‘listen’ to what the art might be telling you about modifying your thought and behaviour patterns.

3. BUT -oldman-

All of the established or putative benefits will be pretty much useless if you don’t actually enjoy your own personal practice, from day to day and from moment to moment. (Well, most of the time, anyway). If your training feels more like crossing off days on the training calendar, then in the long term you’ll run out of steam and/or keep on going through the motions. Literally. You need to find content and an approach that’s basically fun, satisfying, interesting, to some extent challenging, that mostly makes you feel good in some way. Where these qualities become more important than any valuable long-term goals. Otherwise: forget it.
Do not make the mistake of giving up the near in order to seek the far.
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