BJJ framing and Peng

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BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:54 am

Is Peng energy referring to the same phenomenon as BJJ's framing theory? In BJJ framing refers to disallowing your opponent from manipulating your limbs as levers through effective angles and weight bearing.

I'd highly recommend checking this video out on BJJ's framing theory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUC7CFMRVMA
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Bao on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:01 pm

No it's not.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:03 pm

Something like this - use your structure to keep your opponent away?

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby GrahamB on Wed Aug 12, 2020 12:50 pm

I think the answer is "it can be, depending on how you do it".

For clarity "peng" can have 2 meanings - either "Jin being used in an upwards direction" which is directional, or alternatively a kind of all over "basic Jin" which is channeling the ground force in whatever direction to meet the incoming force. I'm thinking of the the 2nd meaning - "basic Jin", here.

In the video by Rory, he uses frames by keeping the arms locked out straight - this is not like basic jin use in Chinese martial arts. It's quite "hard". However, when using Jin you can learn to not "lock out" your arms and achieve the same results though a connected structure and a channeling of the ground force to the point required using the intent (Yi). This is "softer".

If you can do it standing, then you can learn to use it on the ground. (In theory).

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:27 pm

My impression is that Peng energy is using a frame in a more flexible way to allow expression of your body force more than keeping distance.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Quigga on Wed Aug 12, 2020 1:36 pm

For me Peng Jin is what you get when you cultivate understanding of water and fascia in the body. You could also ask what state of mind resembles the 2nd definition of Graham for PJ.

You 'frame' the body structure with bones and fascia, 'fill' it with water, fat and relaxation. It's 'universal ground power'. Imagine if the line from the above picture would go from every point of his body, through his body, then into the ground.

This is water wanting to settle down to earth. Then you need a counterforce for all this sinking. What you get by stacking the bones properly, connecting them to the fascia. Thus having a kind of self regulating omnidirectional for force transfer net, I. E. structure.

All in relation to Heaven/rising and Earth/sinking or just up and down.

When I practiced well, I feel puffed up and filled, heavier and stretched out kinda. This makes fighting easier.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby robert on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:06 pm

Here is Yang jun discussing Peng jin - starts around 4:10.

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 4:50 pm

Chang Taiji "ward off".

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby Fubo on Wed Aug 12, 2020 5:30 pm

You can apply Peng Jin to framing, but framing in the BJJ context is not an example of Peng Jin. People I have met and trained with in BJJ that teach and use framing did not have Peng Jin.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 12, 2020 7:12 pm

When you use right arm and left leg at the same time, you need to use Peng Jing. It works very good when you push on your opponent's neck.

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby everything on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:00 pm

no
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby everything on Wed Aug 12, 2020 10:01 pm

framing and the identical concepts are good stuff, though.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby rojcewiczj on Thu Aug 13, 2020 8:48 am

While I think that the more superficial concept of framing, as keeping your limbs in rigid positions to so as to make or maintain space, has little relevance for CMA. I do think that the concept of the frame as a load bearing structure is very useful. In my experience, while CMA movements are practiced often in the air, their true utility comes out when bearing a load. Like leaning yourself on a wall to do push ups, once your weight is on something you find that your arms have to maintain a certain structure in order to continue to bear your weight and also make movements.
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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby GrahamB on Thu Aug 13, 2020 9:38 am

I don't think the rigid frame is always a good idea in BJJ either - it gives away a flying armbar too easily.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptpcqKqT-rE

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Re: BJJ framing and Peng

Postby yeniseri on Thu Aug 13, 2020 10:02 am

BJJ framing and CMA are a perfect synthesis as observed from Tim Cartmell and the excellent job he is doing with "integration" within martial and competetive sport!
I have never studied with Mr Cartmell but from what I have seen and heard, his instruction is the apex within the template of CMA.
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