the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Trick wrote:

Bao wrote:We are speaking from a taiji and internal arts perspective Graham, not from BJJ.

Petty jokes aside, I did like your earlier comment: However, when using Jin you can learn to not "lock out" your arms and achieve the same results though a connected structure and a channeling of the ground force to the point required using the intent (Yi). This is "softer"."

This is a better understanding than a locked frame. The point of course, though I know how you love to play stupid and I certainly don't want to take that away from you, is that you should be light and not offer any resistance, then it's easier to take advantage of your frame. So yes, if a high level MMA fighter is dragged down, he or she sucks in tai chi.

...

And Mongolian wrestlers are losers if they are dropped to the ground, it’s in the ruleset, same goes for sumo and glima wrestlers....and probably same for most folk wrestling styles, one is a loser if laying on the ground........I agree if one would find oneself laying on the ground one has most probably made a mistake ...

johnwang wrote:

Dmitri wrote:Pengjin is a taijiquan term, and the "rooted in the feet, etc".

If you try to bend my arm, Instead of to use the reverse force to against your force, I straight and extend my arm as if water is going through my arm and shoot out from my hand. Even if my feet are not on the ground, Am I still using Peng Jing?

What does Peng has anything to do with "root in the feet"?

DeusTrismegistus wrote:Anyways, the concept of framing or using your structure in BJJ or Judo is, IMO, like the very first steps to learning Peng. You have to know what a solid structure is before you can learn to make it yield and be flexible. You have to learn how to use your structure and alignment before learning Peng. So I would say it is a part of Peng but not all of it.

Sakujiro Yokoyama wrote:In holding your opponent, therefore, you should hold him lightly as if your arms were nothing but chains which connect you with him, so that you may stretch or contract them at will when necessary, and pull or push him in any direction you choose. If you pull your opponent or apply your tricks on him by putting from the beginning too much strength in your arms, then you are going to contest with him by means of your power and against the principles of Judo. In doing so, you can never expect to succeed in your contest.

Dmitri wrote:It is learned either within the context of the form, or application, or push hands, all if which are always practiced on your feet.

johnwang wrote:

Dmitri wrote:It is learned either within the context of the form, or application, or push hands, all of which are always practiced on your feet.

DeusTrismegistus wrote: Anyways, the concept of framing or using your structure in BJJ or Judo is, IMO, like the very first steps to learning Peng. You have to know what a solid structure is before you can learn to make it yield and be flexible. You have to learn how to use your structure and alignment before learning Peng. So I would say it is a part of Peng but not all of it.

DeusTrismegistus wrote:

Trick wrote:

Bao wrote:We are speaking from a taiji and internal arts perspective Graham, not from BJJ.

Petty jokes aside, I did like your earlier comment: However, when using Jin you can learn to not "lock out" your arms and achieve the same results though a connected structure and a channeling of the ground force to the point required using the intent (Yi). This is "softer"."

This is a better understanding than a locked frame. The point of course, though I know how you love to play stupid and I certainly don't want to take that away from you, is that you should be light and not offer any resistance, then it's easier to take advantage of your frame. So yes, if a high level MMA fighter is dragged down, he or she sucks in tai chi.

...

And Mongolian wrestlers are losers if they are dropped to the ground, it’s in the ruleset, same goes for sumo and glima wrestlers....and probably same for most folk wrestling styles, one is a loser if laying on the ground........I agree if one would find oneself laying on the ground one has most probably made a mistake ...

Depends what the person on top looks like...

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Bao wrote:

DeusTrismegistus wrote: Anyways, the concept of framing or using your structure in BJJ or Judo is, IMO, like the very first steps to learning Peng. You have to know what a solid structure is before you can learn to make it yield and be flexible. You have to learn how to use your structure and alignment before learning Peng. So I would say it is a part of Peng but not all of it.

Many TJQ teachers teach in the same way. First solid, sometimes even use evident/clumsy strength. Then when you get hold of it, you should use relaxed movement instead of keeping a rigid frame.

Then there are those who teach song/relaxation first and then teach how to add frame or structure from a relaxed state.

So two different approaches can be seen in TJQ, but hopefully they lead to the same goal.

BTW, pengjin is actually pretty one dimensional. It's only expansion. But to really stabilise a frame you need to have contracting energy at the same time. Then spiralling and coiling, aka silk reeling energy is better than peng only. By spiralling and coiling you can stabilise the frame in several directions at the same time. Then you can achieve real stability, within both movement and stationary.