Cross-training in Martial Arts

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Yeung on Tue Aug 18, 2020 3:39 am

What is cross-training in Martial Arts? It is different to cross-training in sport which focus on the combination of different training methods such as the strategy for trainings in endurance and explosiveness, etc.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:42 am

Iching, Confucius, Buddhism, Daoism.....etc.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby yeniseri on Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:26 am

I started off in taekwondo! As I began learning, reading, and sharing and despite the information out there, I realized all CMA have common origins.
TKD is actually a Korean configuration of Okinawana naha-te, then morphed into Shotokan.

Cross traning in CMA should mimic na (grab), shuai (throwing) , physical conditioning (jibengong) which is ofetn lacking per stamina and all round cardio (of which the 'purists' say is crap. Without any of these, CMA is useless. It is wonderful as gymnastique activity and ballet nandu for the massess!
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Peacedog on Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:26 am

Cross training historically seemed to be pretty common. Now whether it was acknowledged or not is probably an issue.

I’m most familiar with Wan Lai Sheng from Ziranmen. He was a martial art prodigy who knew the forms behind several different systems. Like a lot of better players from the time he had a pretty strong background in Shaolin as well.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Trick on Tue Aug 18, 2020 8:27 pm

yeniseri wrote:TKD is actually a Korean configuration of Okinawana naha-te, then morphed into Shotokan.


Original TKD was basically Shotokan slightly Korea’nised...Shotokan steem mainly from Shuri-te and Tomari-te - Shorin-ryu....However in the early days of karate on mainland japan(Tokyo) the one Korean who had trained in Funakoshis dojo soon opened his own school open mainly for the Korean population in Tokyo interested to learn karate...that school invited most of the karate masters that where in the Tokyo area(not many at the time), including Funakoshi, but also later Gogen Yamagushi of the Goju-Kai Organisation.......It might have been in that dojo Masatosh Oyama who was Korean studied karate, Oyama later established his Kyukohin-Kai Organisation.......If it was the originator of that “Korean” karate dojo or some of his students that went back to Korea to continue teaching what learned in Tokyo I’ve forgotten, however that what’s supposedly was what eventually became the foundation where TKD came from
Last edited by Trick on Tue Aug 18, 2020 9:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Bao on Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:36 pm

Cross-training is not the same as combining or fusing things together.

...Just wanted to point that out.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Yeung on Thu Aug 20, 2020 3:52 am

Bao wrote:Cross-training is not the same as combining or fusing things together.

...Just wanted to point that out.

Thank you, they call those as hybrid martial arts or eclectic martial arts.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Yeung on Thu Aug 20, 2020 4:21 am

Peacedog wrote:Cross training historically seemed to be pretty common. Now whether it was acknowledged or not is probably an issue.

I’m most familiar with Wan Lai Sheng from Ziranmen. He was a martial art prodigy who knew the forms behind several different systems. Like a lot of better players from the time he had a pretty strong background in Shaolin as well.

Wan Laisheng and Gu Ruzhang were the best know martial artists in China and they published books in Taijiquan, and Gu style taijiquan still has a good following in Hong Kong and Guangzhou but I am not sure about the Wan's Taijiquan. Thanks to Paul Brennan for the translation of their books in Taijiquan:

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... -laisheng/

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... u-ruzhang/
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby GrahamB on Thu Aug 20, 2020 6:03 am

Gu's student Leung Tze Chung (Long Ze Xiang) also wrote a Tai Chi book, which has better photos - same form:

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... g-zixiang/
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby Bhassler on Thu Aug 20, 2020 9:18 am

What kind of cross-training?

Weight training to improve attributes? Sword fighting to improve your understanding of range and structure? Taiji to improve the smoothness of Hung Gar? Wu taiji tuishou to round out your understanding of Chen style?

All are cross-training. All are done for different goals and would have very different outcomes. "For martial arts" is in not a defining characteristic of cross-training-- you have to look at specific goals and how they apply to the specific context.
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Re: Cross-training in Martial Arts

Postby yeniseri on Thu Aug 20, 2020 10:36 am

Trick wrote:
yeniseri wrote:TKD is actually a Korean configuration of Okinawana naha-te, then morphed into Shotokan.


Original TKD was basically Shotokan slightly Korea’nised...Shotokan steem mainly from Shuri-te and Tomari-te - Shorin-ryu....However in the early days of karate on mainland japan(Tokyo) the one Korean who had trained in Funakoshis dojo soon opened his own school open mainly for the Korean population in Tokyo interested to learn karate...that school invited most of the karate masters that where in the Tokyo area(not many at the time), including Funakoshi, but also later Gogen Yamagushi of the Goju-Kai Organisation.......It might have been in that dojo Masatosh Oyama who was Korean studied karate, Oyama later established his Kyukohin-Kai Organisation.......If it was the originator of that “Korean” karate dojo or some of his students that went back to Korea to continue teaching what learned in Tokyo I’ve forgotten, however that what’s supposedly was what eventually became the foundation where TKD came from


Excellent background! The same way that what we know as taijiquan came from Taizuquan (mainly! of course there are others!) but seen differently by individuals who expressed that view in many ways by not only changing the sheell but the interior jibengong! (my words lack the pinpoint accuracy of sensibility and expression). Even xingyi had tis own expression so the circle is alwyas there where 1 person sees a pattern and knows what to do to 'cross train" to the extent of making an art and making sure it is a live instrument of expression as opposed to a "dead" one!

You may know of this already but have you checked the origin of hapkido! The Korean servant who became the founder of Hapkido through his servitude to Sokaku Takeda, teacher of M. Ueshiba.
I get the feeling that crosstraining in CMA, at times, seems like a daunting task to the many because of the "secret magic internal crap" being passed off as orthodoxy, often exploited , making CMA a aughing stock! Just my view".

The mantra of "Do your form 50x and you will magically know how to use it" is not only ridiculous but it pays well for those who can get away with it!
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