Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:03 pm

His Taiji has a lot of SC application.



Here is the leg skill that I'm talking about. Also look at his perfect body posture - back leg, body, head form a perfect straight line.

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I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Fri Aug 28, 2020 6:34 am

these are great videos.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby dspyrido on Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:29 pm

Looking at this thread might give someone the impression that TC is just SJ done slowly, mainly without a partner against the air. But even when a partner is involved TC swaps out any grabs for light contact, doesn't actual do anything too uncooperative and hardly makes contact with any other body part other than the arms. Later on tc at least has a few weapons forms....

Just an observation of the thread....

-shrug-
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:40 am

]Looking at this thread might give someone the impression that TC is just SJ
thats an mistake, the wtestling part if its implemented in the TJQ training curriculum is at intermediate level. at more advanced level its no grabs but perhaps just a light guiding touch by wich any uncooperative thought cannot manifest 8-)
There are no contests in the Art of Peace. A true warrior is invincible because he or she contests with nothing. Defeat means to defeat the mind of contention that we harbor within.

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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby wayne hansen on Sat Aug 29, 2020 12:04 pm

Those of you who have knocked someone out will know it is effortless
That is what real tai chi training is about
Softness is the running away in boxing it is called roll with the punches
This is what Huangs 7 point push is about
As well as 7 yields it also contains 7 punches
Every boxing punch can be found in the pushes
I am talking about how it was done in the 70's not how I have seen it done in recent years
Tai chi is not SJ done slowly it is correct combat practiced in a relaxed manner
The 88 move San shou two man form contains a lot of SJ type moves plus advanced fighting strategy
Sadly most people do it as a dance very few practicing the solo forms and if they do they use the stepping from the two man form,the solo stepping differs
Most don't do the San shou for the four weapons ,these give further ways to apply energy
What is contained in the weapons is why my Kali teacher became my long term tai chi student
I remember showing my Tunisian knife teacher how the knife applied to the empty hand San shou forms
He was blown away and wanted me to show his teacher
I knew his teacher and wasn't interested
Most comments here sadly show what a sallow knowledge most people have of real tai chi
If I applied the throws of tai chi like the videos here I would chide myself for my lack of skill
The fu wing Fei clips come from a video of the 24 step that I have had since the 70's
There are a lot of better things on this video especially some of the olf films of all the major styles of tai chi
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:01 pm

Trick wrote: the wtestling part if its implemented in the TJQ training curriculum is at intermediate level. at more advanced level its no grabs but perhaps just a light guiding touch by wich any uncooperative thought cannot manifest

wayne hansen wrote:Tai chi is not SJ done slowly it is correct combat practiced in a relaxed manner...

This is why GM Chang said, "Let's Taiji be Taiji and let SC be SC. If you try to integrate both, you will make Taiji people unhappy."

In another forum I suggest to integrate Taiji PH with WC sticky hand. My suggestion make many WC guys unhappy.

Why there is difficulty to integrate Taiji and SC? In SC you have to give before you can take. Most Taiji people are not willing to give.

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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:21 pm

In real Shaolin Rou Quan (not modern stuff), what looks like a kick/punch is really Chin Na, what looks like Chin Na is really a takedown, what looks like a take down is really an evasion.
On the mediocre level, it is only strong man fighting, on the intermediate level it is self defense, on the advance level it is like a ghost, a Torero that disappears whenever the bull charges the red cape and traps itself.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby dspyrido on Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:54 pm

I like these responses. Nice pearls of wisdom.

johnwang wrote:This is why GM Chang said, "Let's Taiji be Taiji and let SC be SC. If you try to integrate both, you will make Taiji people unhappy."

In another forum I suggest to integrate Taiji PH with WC sticky hand. My suggestion make many WC guys unhappy.


I don't think happiness of pure styles matters but the problem of mixing too early does. Learning to yield is not possible if a student always rushes up to grab. But it is sensible to learn one, then the other and then have choices.

After all didn't the bagua, tc and xy guys get together to exchange and learn on many occasions. Isn't mastery of 3 internals a quote around knowing the big 3. Isn't China's many flavours of arts based on the history of exchanging, testing and learning to also create new styles (at least prior to communist chinas near eradication of CMAs).
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:24 pm

dspyrido wrote:Learning to yield is not possible if a student always rushes up to grab.

Here is the conflict.

I can also say that to learn how to yield too early can weak your tiger spirit (needed for SC) - act like a tiger and try to eat your opponent alive.

This is the tiger spirit. GM Chang liked him very much for his aggressiveness.

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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Trick on Sat Aug 29, 2020 11:34 pm

johnwang wrote:
Trick wrote: the wtestling part if its implemented in the TJQ training curriculum is at intermediate level. at more advanced level its no grabs but perhaps just a light guiding touch by wich any uncooperative thought cannot manifest


This is why GM Chang said, "Let's Taiji be Taiji and let SC be SC. If you try to integrate both, you will make Taiji people unhappy."

In another forum I suggest to integrate Taiji PH with WC sticky hand. My suggestion make many WC guys unhappy.

Why there is difficulty to integrate Taiji and SC? In SC you have to give before you can take. Most Taiji people are not willing to give.

Image
As I wrote, the wrestling game(grabs giving and taking)if implemented in TJQ is at the intermediate level. ....Suitable for those eager to compete......
Taiji people are not unhappy about this.....
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby robert on Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:56 am

johnwang wrote:Here is the conflict.

I can also say that to learn how to yield too early can weak your tiger spirit (needed for SC) - act like a tiger and try to eat your opponent alive.

This is the tiger spirit. GM Chang liked him very much for his aggressiveness.

Tigers are ambush predators. They prefer to wait for their prey to come as close as possible before they make a move to kill. (Carolina Tiger Rescue.) That is taijiquan strategy.

The spirit is like a cat pouncing on a mouse. (Taijiquan Classics.)
FWIW.
Last edited by robert on Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Sun Aug 30, 2020 7:08 pm

That might be another clue to the Buddhist (Shaolin and other temples) roots of TJQ,
in that by its nature the Buddhist martial arts cannot and are not the attackers,
rather it uses effortless power to neutralize/circumvent/evade the incoming force and return it back (letting the opponent face its karma).
Buddhist martial arts were made with dealing with a sudden ambush.
Hence the qigongs, the empty hand movements, can be done the same with a staff, shovel, pitchfork, cane, and double sword.

The original conversion of Shuai Jiao ideas of maneuvering and Boxing techniques and military weapons techniques was done by these arts when they turned them from war and sport techniques to effortless power evasive techniques. Hence they evolved further into yielding, redirecting, absorbing, and releasing.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Trick on Sun Aug 30, 2020 9:50 pm

robert wrote:
johnwang wrote:Here is the conflict.

I can also say that to learn how to yield too early can weak your tiger spirit (needed for SC) - act like a tiger and try to eat your opponent alive.

This is the tiger spirit. GM Chang liked him very much for his aggressiveness.

Tigers are ambush predators. They prefer to wait for their prey to come as close as possible before they make a move to kill. (Carolina Tiger Rescue.) That is taijiquan strategy.

The spirit is like a cat pouncing on a mouse. (Taijiquan Classics.)
FWIW.

. act like a tiger and try to eat your opponent alive.
sound cool , but it’s just machismo jargong.....Doubt many gong fu masters actually studied animals behavior
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Fubo on Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:20 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Those of you who have knocked someone out will know it is effortless
That is what real tai chi training is about
Softness is the running away in boxing it is called roll with the punches
This is what Huangs 7 point push is about
As well as 7 yields it also contains 7 punches
Every boxing punch can be found in the pushes
I am talking about how it was done in the 70's not how I have seen it done in recent years
Tai chi is not SJ done slowly it is correct combat practiced in a relaxed manner
The 88 move San shou two man form contains a lot of SJ type moves plus advanced fighting strategy
Sadly most people do it as a dance very few practicing the solo forms and if they do they use the stepping from the two man form,the solo stepping differs
Most don't do the San shou for the four weapons ,these give further ways to apply energy
What is contained in the weapons is why my Kali teacher became my long term tai chi student
I remember showing my Tunisian knife teacher how the knife applied to the empty hand San shou forms
He was blown away and wanted me to show his teacher
I knew his teacher and wasn't interested
Most comments here sadly show what a sallow knowledge most people have of real tai chi
If I applied the throws of tai chi like the videos here I would chide myself for my lack of skill
The fu wing Fei clips come from a video of the 24 step that I have had since the 70's
There are a lot of better things on this video especially some of the olf films of all the major styles of tai chi


Wayne, can you point to the videos of Taiji you consider to be better than the Fu Wing Fei clip? I’m not disputing you, genuinely curious.
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