Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Aug 26, 2020 11:33 am

heheh, how much Shuai Jiao do you see in this video (of Wu TJQ long form)?
Shuai Jiao moves and Takedowns obvious in this style (Wu founder and son were Manchurian trained in SJ first)

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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:42 pm

Let's see if the following basic SC skill are in his form or not.

撕(Si) - Tearing
崩(Beng) - Cracking
捅(Tong) - Striking push
褪(tun) - Hand pushing
肘(Zhou) - Elbow pressing
蓋(Gai) - Covering hands
攞(Lou)- Pulling hands
搖(Yao) - Body-shaking hands
捯(Dao) - Reverse arm-holding
抖(Dou) – Shaking
分(Fen) - Separate hands
掖(Ye) - Hand tucking
引(Yin) - Arm guiding
捧(Peng) - Arm raising
架(Jia) - Elbow Locking
圈(Quan) – Under hook
抄(Chao) - Over hook
抹(Mo) – Wiping
偏(Pian) – Head circling
夾(Jia) – Clamping head
摘(Zai) – Helmet removing
摀(Wu) – Face covering
速(Su) – Forehead push
墬(Zhui) - Sticking drop
撈 (Lao) – Leg seize
環(Huan) – Neck surrounding
托(Tuo) – Chin pushing
封(Feng) – Throat/waist blocking
撒(Sa) – Casting
飄(Piao) - Floating hand

I can't find any move that he does has the following intention.

掖(Ye) - Hand tucking

Image

捯(Dao) - Reverse arm-holding

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Aug 26, 2020 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:30 pm

Yes, I don't see Hand Tucking (Shuai Jiao #3) and Reverse Arm Holding (Shuai Jiao #2).
I wondered about that, maybe it is hidden in application, those are important ones.

Sometimes you can see him open with his toe out, totally like Shuai Jiao.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:33 pm

The Wu founders must have saw the Shuai Jiao inherent in the Tai Ji Quan, which comes means that they saw that the Shaolin it uses comes from Shuai Jiao
Shaolin is just Boxing (Jiao Ti) mixed with Shaui Jiao.
The public Shaolin is kicking and punching, but the inner is joint locks and Shuai Jiao takedowns, and finally evasions without using hands.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Wed Aug 26, 2020 8:20 pm

salcanzonieri wrote:Sometimes you can see him open with his toe out, totally like Shuai Jiao.

The 7 star stance exist in Yang Taiji and many northern CMA style. It can be used to trap your opponent's leg to scoop, or scoop kick.

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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Aug 27, 2020 12:57 am

Firstly it is not a great example of Wu
I see both the above applications in both yang and Wu
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:15 am

That Wu style video is being done exaggerated to show each move clearly.

it's more than the applications, its the angled body posture.
Shaui Jiao uses the same postures as in Wu style.
One can freeze frame every posture in that Wu style video and show the Shuai Jiao postural movements.
Even the stepping is same. One can do belt cracking while doing this Wu form.





ha, fast push hands:
Last edited by salcanzonieri on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Thu Aug 27, 2020 9:20 am

Old Wu style TJQ 20th century:






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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 10:59 am

salcanzonieri wrote:One can freeze frame every posture in that Wu style video and show the Shuai Jiao postural movements.

Agree that in your video, his head, body, back leg always make a perfect straight line. Without SC training, most people can not achieve that.

Image

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby salcanzonieri on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:40 am

I wonder if GM Chang had seen the Wu style before the Yang style what his comment would be.
Maybe he would not have needs to create his version of the Yang TJQ?
Maybe he would have used the Wu style form as a TJQ to add to the system?
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:45 am

What makes you think he didn't see the Wu
I see no SJ applications in his form or the Wu that aren't in the Yang
Just more subtle in the Yang
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:51 am

salcanzonieri wrote:I wonder if GM Chang had seen the Wu style before the Yang style what his comment would be.
Maybe he would not have needs to create his version of the Yang TJQ?
Maybe he would have used the Wu style form as a TJQ to add to the system?

GM Chang only changed 6 moves in the long 108 moves form. The base is still Yang Taiji. One day I asked him why he didn't integrate SC leg skill into his Taiji. He said if he did that, he could make more enemies from the Taiji community than he could make friends.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:51 pm

Many years ago, David C. K. Lin and I condensed the 108 moves Taiji into 48 moves Taiji. Each moves in the form can be applied as a SC move.



One of my students also created his version of Taiji by adding into the leg skill.

Last edited by johnwang on Thu Aug 27, 2020 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Trick on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:19 pm

wayne hansen wrote:I see both the above applications in both yang and Wu

Agree, and they are pretty obvious In the form....
Last edited by Trick on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Atth> John Wang check out this video (please)

Postby Trick on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:36 pm

johnwang wrote:
salcanzonieri wrote:I wonder if GM Chang had seen the Wu style before the Yang style what his comment would be.
Maybe he would not have needs to create his version of the Yang TJQ?
Maybe he would have used the Wu style form as a TJQ to add to the system?

GM Chang only changed 6 moves in the long 108 moves form. The base is still Yang Taiji. One day I asked him why he didn't integrate SC leg skill into his Taiji. He said if he did that, he could make more enemies from the Taiji community than he could make friends.

My Yang Taiji teacher here in China has practiced Shuai Jiao from childhood times, all his Taiji application practice is ShuaiJiao with all of its leg skills....he calls this practice Taiji-Sanshou when he teach it......The Taiji community is not angry with him......
His teacher Fu Zhongwen knew about his Shuai Jiao background and didn’t oppose that...probably cause the ShuaiJiao skills are there in the forms
Last edited by Trick on Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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