What can solo form training offer you?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

What can solo form training offer you?

Postby johnwang on Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:03 pm

What can solo form raining offer you? IMO, it can offer you the "foundation" such as:

- flexibility.
- balance.
- body unification.
- body alignment.
- ...

In the following clips. both have very good control of their bodies. This kind of ability can only be obtained from the solo form training.

It's very pleasant to watch these guy doing their forms. Do you agree?





Last edited by johnwang on Sun Sep 06, 2020 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 5:29 pm

johnwang wrote:What can solo form raining offer you? IMO, it can offer you the "foundation" such as:

- flexibility.
- balance.
- body unification.
- body alignment.
- ...

In the following clips. both have very good control of their bodies. This kind of ability can only be obtained from the solo form training.

... Do you agree?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLnVHNG ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yXnPM3 ... e=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HT4wK6a ... e=youtu.be

No. You can also obtain those attributes by: doing part(s) of the form, shadowboxing, solo drills, heavy bag, strength & conditioning, plus partner drills, technical sparring, etc.

However, I caveat that there may be certain movements and transitions that should be kept together for continuity, etc.
Last edited by marvin8 on Sun Sep 06, 2020 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:43 am

. No. You can also obtain those attributes by: doing part(s) of the form, shadowboxing, solo drills, heavy bag, strength & conditioning, plus partner drills, technical sparring, etc.
So instead of jumping from station to station in a sweaty gym(bag section, then to shadow boxing mirror section, then to strength(weight) training section then to (just)two person sparring section), etc.) you can just find a nice place in the park and do your Taiji form........get all + more in one 8-)

Partly joking partly serious here.....
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:46 am

Trick wrote:
. No. You can also obtain those attributes by: doing part(s) of the form, shadowboxing, solo drills, heavy bag, strength & conditioning, plus partner drills, technical sparring, etc.
So instead of jumping from station to station in a sweaty gym(bag section, then to shadow boxing mirror section, then to strength(weight) training section then to (just)two person sparring section), etc.) you can just find a nice place in the park and do your Taiji form........get all + more in one 8-)

Partly joking partly serious here.....

You don't need to "jump from station to station." You can do them at separate times. Doing part of a form can create less sweat, specialize and save time versus doing the whole form. S & C doesn't have to be (weight). It can be mobility, stretching, agility, balance, plyometrics, etc. Drilling attributes in various contexts (e.g., dynamic) can develop stronger attributes than just doing your form (e.g., Zhang Weili).

Shuai Jiao, judo, sanda, MMA, boxing, wrestling, muay thai, and other combat sports develop attributes fine without doing forms. 8-)
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 07, 2020 5:07 am

. Doing part of a form can create less sweat, specialize and save time versus doing the whole form. (e.g., Zhang Weili).

I don’t know what forms Zhang Weili training(did train) but TJQ I’m sure he did not....
. You don't need to "jump from station to station." You can do them at separate times. Doing part of a form can create less sweat, specialize and save time versus doing the whole form. S & C doesn't have to be (weight). It can be mobility, stretching, agility, balance, plyometrics, etc. Drilling attributes in various contexts (e.g., dynamic) can develop stronger attributes than just doing your form (e.g., Zhang Weili).

sports develop attributes fine without doing forms. 8-)
since I Here focus on the TJQ form, I must remind you that TJQ is not a sport/game, it’s serious stuff..8-)
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:29 am

Trick wrote:
marvin8 wrote:. Doing part of a form can create less sweat, specialize and save time versus doing the whole form. (e.g., Zhang Weili).

I don’t know what forms Zhang Weili training(did train) but TJQ I’m sure he did not....

I tend to agree. Which would answer johnwang's OP statement:
johnwang wrote:... This kind of ability can only be obtained from the solo form training.

False. Zhang Weili, UFC Women's Strawweight Champion, has obtained ability without solo form training. Zhang Weili does modern MMA training. Another example is Valentina Shevchenko, Women's Flyweight champion, who also obtained ability without solo form training. 8-)
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:08 am

rhe UFC ! well then i understand shes not a TJQ practitioner(had no idea who Zhang Weili is),that would be a waste of time practise for her.....as i wrote, TJQ is not a sport. The great abilities harnessed from TJQ practice is for outside any sport and game venues.....
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:18 am

Trick wrote:rhe UFC ! well then i understand shes not a TJQ practitioner(had no idea who Zhang Weili is),that would be a waste of time practise for her.....as i wrote, TJQ is not a sport. The great abilities harnessed from TJQ practice is for outside any sport and game venues.....

You are the only one who brought up the subject of TJQ/sport in this thread. I was referring to johnwang's OP and Long Fist forms videos. Normally, johnwang is about ability in combat/fighting. 8-)
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Peacedog on Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:33 am

When it's done well (i.e. proper connectivity, breathing, concentration) a long form can be used to run a specific energy through the ligament and tendon network in all available planes of motion for an extended period of time.

While not necessary for martial development, it is a very important training methods in most meditative/yogic systems. It also appears to aid functionality in old age if not explicitly longevity.

It's the reason why most of these systems have a movement based methodology they use. Hatha yoga is an extreme example of this. Even the Forest Tradition in Theraveda Buddhism does what is commonly called the "monk walk" for extended periods of time. As a deliberate extension of this, the Forest Tradition in Thailand has the highest conversion rate to arahant status amongst all of the schools in Thailand as a result .

The martial systems generally do a much better job of working with body alignment, teaching how to move from the tendons and proper planes of motions than the purely meditative schools, which is why their stuff works better in application for the most part.
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Bao on Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:54 pm

Slow form training as in Tai Chi offers a lot. You can learn much about your body and become aware of its weaknesses.

Fast form practice? If it doesn't have a specific purpose of training a breath pattern/coordination or body mechanics I have no idea. Doing movements for the sake of doing movements is a waste of time IMO. For external practice its better to do drills, jibengong and practice kicks and punches on bags and pads etc.
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:37 pm

marvin8 wrote:
Trick wrote:rhe UFC ! well then i understand shes not a TJQ practitioner(had no idea who Zhang Weili is),that would be a waste of time practise for her.....as i wrote, TJQ is not a sport. The great abilities harnessed from TJQ practice is for outside any sport and game venues.....

You are the only one who brought up the subject of TJQ/sport in this thread. I was referring to johnwang's OP and Long Fist forms videos. Normally, johnwang is about ability in combat/fighting. 8-)
this is your writing
. You don't need to "jump from station to station." You can do them at separate times. Doing part of a form can create less sweat, specialize and save time versus doing the whole form. S & C doesn't have to be (weight). It can be mobility, stretching, agility, balance, plyometrics, etc. Drilling attributes in various contexts (e.g., dynamic) can develop stronger attributes than just doing your form (e.g., Zhang Weili).

Shuai Jiao, judo, sanda, MMA, boxing, wrestling, muay thai, and other combat sports develop attributes fine without doing forms. 8-)[
you mention sport, and referring to an UFC participant(Zhang Weili),....then Im saying forms practiceis I not sport and it is not intended to be a method of preparation for entering competition
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Tue Sep 08, 2020 1:48 am

Trick wrote:you mention sport, and referring to an UFC participant(Zhang Weili),....then Im saying forms practiceis I not sport and it is not intended to be a method of preparation for entering competition

You may want to start your own thread about the "purpose of forms." I believe that is a different topic from the OP: obtaining attributes and abilities used in fighting.

My answer to the OP topic is fighting attributes (e.g., flexibility, balance, body unification, body alignment. etc.) can be obtained by various methods (posted above), other than only from solo forms.

johnwang wrote:- flexibility.
- balance.
- body unification.
- body alignment.
- ...

This kind of ability can only be obtained from the solo form training.
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby GrahamB on Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:21 am

What can solo training offer you?

A daily ritual to consecrate your mind and body for the good of the community?
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby Trick on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:46 am

marvin8 wrote:[
You may want to start your own thread about the "purpose of forms." I believe that is a different topic

but that would be spot on the topic.........OK, i will stop annoy you here, my next post in this thread may hold my expertise on what forms may offer you 8-)
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Re: What can solo form training offer you?

Postby marvin8 on Tue Sep 08, 2020 9:07 am

Trick wrote:
marvin8 wrote:[
You may want to start your own thread about the "purpose of forms." I believe that is a different topic

but that would be spot on the topic.........OK, i will stop annoy you here, my next post in this thread may hold my expertise on what forms may offer you 8-)

Yes, please post "what forms may offer you." I felt you were taking the thread off topic with your direction of comments.

Trick wrote:you mention sport, and referring to an UFC participant(Zhang Weili),....then Im saying forms practiceis I not sport and it is not intended to be a method of preparation for entering competition

Zhang and Shevchenko, sport fighters, are examples that attributes/abilities can be obtained by methods, other than solo forms.

The OP implies, MA forms develop foundational attributes and abilities that are used in self defense/fighting. Therefore, forms are "intended to be a method of preparation" for fighting. UFC provides a venue for fighting that can be a tool to practice and test MA skills.
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