Dynamic Punch

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby klonk on Sat Sep 19, 2020 8:14 pm

johnwang wrote:You can have

- 1 step 1 punch.
- 1 step 2 punches.
- 1 step 3 punches.

You can also have many steps 1 punch. Your opponent is moving back. You move in to cover the distance. When you do that, you are using dynamic punch.

Here is an example of the "dynamic punch". I like this kind of mobility training.

Your thought?

Image


This kind of thing is of great value in teaching you to momentarily settle, take root, and punch from the ground. If you can do that on the move, you really have skill.

If you only run about and thrust with your arm, not so good. It may be said that the momentum of the run forward is enough power to punch with. It is the timing and delivery that make me disagree with that idea. Charging forward and thrusting works with a spear because a spear has a blade on it.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6782
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby Trick on Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:38 am

dspyrido wrote:
Trick wrote:And the reason why the pulling hand goes down(to hip area) is for the enhancement of ones spirit to always stand tall(er)
This pulling hand method trains the practitioner to out-time an opponent as for example nailing him in the mid of his forward charge

Well trained and ingrained one will radiate strong confidence and no hooligan would dare to lay a hand on you...... 8-)


Against a bad fighter, an unsuspecting target or someone who is drunk ... maybe.

But against a good fighter - I'd rather have my hand in place to have a chance of stopping me getting punched in the face.

You seem to misunderstand here, you can’t really have beleived I advocate pulling the fist to the hip to reload a strike while in an actual encounter ?.... The practice I describe is while solo practice, to developed the right sense of awareness that’s necessary when then interacting with actual forces...
Last edited by Trick on Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby dspyrido on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:34 pm

Trick wrote:You seem to misunderstand here, you can’t really have beleived I advocate pulling the fist to the hip to reload a strike while in an actual encounter ?.... The practice I describe is while solo practice, to developed the right sense of awareness that’s necessary when then interacting with actual forces...


Yes I did misunderstand.

I guess we are saying - pull the hand back to simulate an arm pull. I just find it kind of strange that this galloping form does it. Once the arm is pulled is the opponent somehow running away? If so then why leave the arm there and do the hopping lunging fist?
User avatar
dspyrido
Wuji
 
Posts: 2356
Joined: Sun Jan 11, 2009 5:03 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby johnwang on Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:56 pm

dspyrido wrote: why leave the arm there and do the hopping lunging fist?

Act as a rhino guard.

- A uses right punch. B steps back.
- A uses left rhino guard, hops in and close the distance.
- A then throws right punch.

It's no difference from a jab, cross, jab combo.

One of my favor training is:

- A holds a kicking shield.
- B steps in right leg and punch right fist on the shield.
- A uses backward jump to retreat.
- B uses left leg skip with left rhino guard to chase A.
- B then lands right punch on the shield with right leg forward.
Last edited by johnwang on Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergic to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9598
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby johnwang on Wed Sep 23, 2020 5:33 pm

We can modify this combo as:

- Step in with right punch.
- Step in with left punch.
- Skip in with left punch again.
- Step in with right punch.

This way, all 4 punches can be coordinate with the 4 leading foot landing.

Your thought?

Image
I'm still allergic to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9598
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby marvin8 on Wed Sep 23, 2020 8:49 pm

johnwang wrote:Act as a rhino guard.

- A uses right punch. B steps back.
- A uses left rhino guard, hops in and close the distance.
- A then throws right punch. ...

We can modify this combo as:

- Step in with right punch.
- Step in with left punch.

A uses right punch. B (orthodox stance) steps back loading rear kua/foot. As A chambers right hand to waist, steps forward and skips, B steps slightly to left with lead foot, changes directions by transferring weight to front foot and lands a straight right using A's forward momentum to KO A.

Image

johnwang wrote:It's no difference from a jab, cross, jab combo.

A typical boxing/MMA shift punch combo is different: throw rear hand while stepping/switching stances. Punching hand becomes lead hand which stays extended to control or returns to guard position for defense, instead of chambering to waist. More power and control.

A similar example:

Image
Last edited by marvin8 on Thu Sep 24, 2020 7:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby johnwang on Fri Sep 25, 2020 12:44 pm

marvin8 wrote:
johnwang wrote:In battle field, it doesn't matter your opponent wants to fight or not. You still want to kill him.

In society, that is murder with the possibility of life in prison or death penalty.

I'm talking about in battle field.

Image
Image
I'm still allergic to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9598
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby marvin8 on Fri Sep 25, 2020 7:47 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
johnwang wrote:In battle field, it doesn't matter your opponent wants to fight or not. You still want to kill him.

In society, that is murder with the possibility of life in prison or death penalty.

I'm talking about in battle field.

https://i.postimg.cc/cL8QSYHN/yuan-yang-zhen-1.gif
https://i.postimg.cc/sX08v8kL/yuan-yang-zhen-2.gif
Quigga wrote:I don't really get the point of it. When would you use this?

If my enemy moved that far back, it would be clear he doesn't even want to fight...

However, the question was in general. Battle field strategy and techniques (e.g., come forward and jab) may not be practical for civilian self-defense. It's hard to prove that someone "moving back" is trying to cause you imminent death or great bodily harm. In your gif, the opponents are not retreating.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby Trick on Fri Sep 25, 2020 11:41 pm

. It's hard to prove that someone "moving back" is trying to cause you imminent death or great bodily harm.
if them who are suddenly moving back was the one(s) initiated the”trying to cause you bodily harm” can prove they where not just trying to regroup ? ..don’t give them an inch ..8-)
Trick
Wuji
 
Posts: 3878
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2016 1:30 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby marvin8 on Sat Sep 26, 2020 12:45 am

Trick wrote:
. It's hard to prove that someone "moving back" is trying to cause you imminent death or great bodily harm.
if them who are suddenly moving back was the one(s) initiated the”trying to cause you bodily harm” can prove they where not just trying to regroup ? ..don’t give them an inch ..8-)

Where "your opponent doesn't want to fight," you can "not give them an inch" and kill them. However again, that is murder with the possibility of life in prison or death penalty.

johnwang wrote:In battle field, it doesn't matter your opponent wants to fight or not. You still want to kill him.
User avatar
marvin8
Wuji
 
Posts: 2206
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:30 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby .Q. on Sat Sep 26, 2020 2:52 am

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:
johnwang wrote:In battle field, it doesn't matter your opponent wants to fight or not. You still want to kill him.

In society, that is murder with the possibility of life in prison or death penalty.

I'm talking about in battle field.

Image
Image

I thought the YuanYang formation involved shield wielders too?
Don't understand why you would use the crappy firearm at that range when clearly you can't miss w/ arrows, which reloads faster than that particular implement.
I like the claymation though. Very clear and to the point.
.Q.
Wuji
 
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:51 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby C.J.W. on Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:40 am

Here's my two cents' worth:

Many people look down on LF and say its only good for show because the punches and kicks are too exaggerated and extended to be effective. Nothing can be further from the truth.

In application, Long Fist is actually more grappling-based than striking-based. That's why withdrawing one hand to the waist -- while the other hand moves forward -- makes sense; it can be used to push and pull the opponent at the same time to set up throws and take-downs. (Ever noticed how the long postures and movements of LF are very similar to the solo forms of Shuaijiao? This is why.)

As for moving forward while punching, IMO there are mainly two different ways to time the punch: you can either make contact with the target as the foot lands OR make contact while one foot is still in the air. The former relies more on ground connection and structure for power, while the latter has more to do with forward momentum and acceleration.
Last edited by C.J.W. on Sat Sep 26, 2020 3:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
C.J.W.
Wuji
 
Posts: 1865
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:02 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby johnwang on Sat Sep 26, 2020 10:51 am

.Q. wrote:I thought the YuanYang formation involved shield wielders too?

It has.

I'm still allergic to "push".
User avatar
johnwang
Great Old One
 
Posts: 9598
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 5:26 pm

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby klonk on Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:21 pm

If you can make strong contact out of a charging punch, very well, but there is still this problem, your momentum makes you vulnerable to an adversary's counter. Getting hit as you advance is "using the opponent's force against him," in Asian parlance. If someone does that to you, you made a mistake. You will know it at once.

In other words, you leave yourself no room of error if you charge in with a punch. If he deflects you and counters, you just got hit with the force you were bringing to him, plus any tip he cares to pay for your effort.
Last edited by klonk on Sat Sep 26, 2020 5:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
I define internal martial art as unusual muscle recruitment and leave it at that. If my definition is incomplete, at least it is correct so far as it goes.
User avatar
klonk
Great Old One
 
Posts: 6782
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 11:46 am

Re: Dynamic Punch

Postby .Q. on Tue Sep 29, 2020 11:07 pm

johnwang wrote:
.Q. wrote:I thought the YuanYang formation involved shield wielders too?

It has.

Ah, ok. Thanks. Always thought the Christmas tree spear guy goes 1st though.
.Q.
Wuji
 
Posts: 893
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 8:51 am

PreviousNext

Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests