the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2020 10:26 am**

There was the saying of “punch retraction should be faster than the punch itself”, which I heard from a master of Luhebafa and Xiajia 俠家 some years ago. And it came to my mind as I am developing the stretch-recoil cycle in martial arts. Has any one heard of similar saying or published reference?

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:14 pm**

Isn't that a common boxing quote?

Posted: **Thu Oct 01, 2020 11:34 pm**

Yeung wrote:“punch retraction should be faster than the punch itself”,...

I had personal experience on this. Back in 1980. I went to China and met my teacher's young brother. He threw a punch at my chest. When he pulled his fist back, it caused a vacuum in front of my chest. My shirt was flying away from my body. In the past 40 years I tried to develop that ability but I was not satisfied with the result.

That was the only time in my life that I had experienced that. Since his punch didn't hit my body, I won't be able to tell the difference between a punch like that from a normal punch.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:44 am**

My Aikido teacher demonstrated something similar(but never actually strike the budy) the theory was something as the difference from a “regular” strike you also “pull out” the stricken’s Ki/chi.....If this was also done with different “kiais”(spirit shout) the effect on the stricken could be greater or lesser....

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:22 am**

Karate I presume? Sports Karate? If you hit with good punch, why would it be necessary to retract the punch? $:-\$
Focus should be on penetrating the target as deep as possible IMO.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:21 am**

Bao wrote:Karate I presume? Sports Karate? If you hit with good punch, why would it be necessary to retract the punch? $:-\$
Focus should be on penetrating the target as deep as possible IMO.

i dont know if this is pointed to my post ? anyway, in my post i wrote about my AIKIDO teachers teaching on the retraction of ones strike as in some way to pull out the opponents chi, now this was al explained theoretically and was not something we practiced and tried to achieve during Aikido class, in class the opposite was done, throwing a punch trying to physically go tgrough so the other was to borrow/blend with that momentum...... however you are right the retraction of ones punch is done during karate sparring/fighting although the punch is quite comitted, maybe one manage to pull away some of the opponents Qi, however from my own experience its to reload for an eventual next punch, a next punch which should not be neccesary), and its proper conduct to show even that you scored you are still there ready and aware - zanshin - remaining heart(but that part beginning to go lost, i guess) ......Heres a gallery of karate striking

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:30 am**

oops that link didnt work,, maybe this will do https://m.baidu.com/sf?pd=video_page&ni ... 2241311754

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:32 am**

johnwang wrote:
Yeung wrote:“punch retraction should be faster than the punch itself”,...

I had personal experience on this. Back in 1980. I went to China and met my teacher's young brother. He threw a punch at my chest. When he pulled his fist back, it caused a vacuum in front of my chest. My shirt was flying away from my body. In the past 40 years I tried to develop that ability but I was not satisfied with the result.

That was the only time in my life that I had experienced that. Since his punch didn't hit my body, I won't be able to tell the difference between a punch like that from a normal punch.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:10 am**

it is my understanding that an effective soft tissue palm strike penetrates and then withdraws faster so as to pull and disrupt the fluids. palms slap to penetrate and withdraw to further disrupt the system. i play with this with different palm shapes in the pool.

a fist, even if trained as 'a rolled up palm', is too hard and bony to produce the same effect. although i still withdraw a fist 2x as fast for a host of reasons.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:24 am**

.Q. wrote:Isn't that a common boxing quote?

You mean something like the following:

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:10 pm**

If force moves through the body like a whip, then by logical extension the retraction should always be faster.

Posted: **Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:41 pm**

Quigga wrote:If force moves through the body like a whip, then by logical extension the retraction should always be faster.

Wouldn’t that be the bullwhip cracking way.....actually that’s kind of what going on when one fali’ing or Kime’ing(as in karate)..the sudden stop of the speeding fist flunged out is kind of an retraction ...if this is perfectly mastered ones punches does not need to be as battering rams crushing throu an opponent.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:02 am**

Trick wrote:
Quigga wrote:If force moves through the body like a whip, then by logical extension the retraction should always be faster.

Wouldn’t that be the bullwhip cracking way.....actually that’s kind of what going on when one fali’ing or Kime’ing(as in karate)..the sudden stop of the speeding fist flunged out is kind of an retraction ...if this is perfectly mastered ones punches does not need to be as battering rams crushing throu an opponent.

Sudden stop? But the whip continues. Actually, even if it's brought back in the opposite direction, it still continues before it changes its direction.

I don't know. For this kind of pull back thing, the fist still needs to penetrate the surface before it's brought back. I am not convinced that it will be very effective in a real combat situation against a real person. I prefer the battering ram.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:44 am**

Retracting the fist in boxing is purely about guarding the head, as soon as you've punched you're open to the counter.

In taiji or any grappling type art you obviously also run the risk of having your arm wrapped.

Talk of 'drawing out chi' etc. is a bit of a red herring/misunderstanding of practicalities of fighting imho.

Posted: **Sat Oct 03, 2020 12:23 pm**

denchen wrote:Retracting the fist in boxing is purely about guarding the head, as soon as you've punched you're open to the counter.

Exactly. Boxing is sport, a point chasing game. If you take away the glows and rules, add throws, wrestling and everything you want, then retracting your punch should be the least of your concern.

the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

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