A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:11 pm

Finny wrote:So your 'case' is that I don't do CMA? Or that you haven't seen me 'sparring using TCMA'? I'm still unsure what you're trying to say, other than you think the vid shows 'good stuff'. I've said that my case is - CMA or no - that is not teaching for someone wanting to know anything about fighting.

Again - what about it is good?

If you don't do CMA and need someone to teach you a simple concept, why bother coming on here at all? Oh, I forgot.. to troll...

Windwalker already answered your "questions". I doubt the video was meant as a substitute for training. I like the expression of Fajin shown in the first clip. I like his strategies and footwork in the third video. I use that stuff for both sparring and fencing. Works great. Anyways, no need to beat a dead horse. You don't and/or can't do CMA and seek some sense of satisfaction by trolling on here about matters that you don't understand. Rather sad...
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Finny on Thu Nov 05, 2020 10:54 pm

Who said anything about 'needing someone to teach me a simple concept'? I was simply asking you why you thought that clip was 'good stuff'.

I've been a member here for nearly twenty years. I have more TCMA experience than you do. I come here because I like chatting to the folks here; you had this explained to you many times before, but the reality is that the regulars here have had these discussions ad nauseum... before you were out of grade school. We don't actually come here to convince anyone of anything, because we typically know where we stand.

Your juvenile insults aside - I suppose your assessment of the video is simply diametrically opposed to mine. I didn't 'like his strategies and footwork'. Sorry you think that disagreeing with you is trolling, but kinda indicative of the maturity level you've always displayed here.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Trick on Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:52 am

Finny, I understand you do TJMA(Koryu). I myself been into Karate(Shotokan) and some Aikido, the two considered Modern Budo(Gendai).
Koryu os mainly weapon based practice, are there any specific “Fa-Jin” practice done in Koryu..?
Suburi practice perhaps work to develop Fajin like power ? Traditionally such practice were done in Shotokan in the early days but lost today..in Aikido it can be found practiced too in some schools but not extensively...
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Finny on Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:03 am

Hey Trick - not in the two koryu I have experience with. The training with weapons in koryu feels different to me in terms of the approach. Where CMA seem to almost universally be using weapons (when they do) to develop unarmed abilities (or for performance/cultural value) - The da qiang work you see in Xin/gyiquan and Bajiquan strike me as emblematic of this style of training. As an outsider, my impression of the training is that it is very clearly intended as developing fa-jin or shen fa for unarmed use, with little information or time devoted to learning arcane ways of using them on a battlefield. I think this is borne out by the fact that most XY lineages claim that XY is a system derived from battlefield spear, rather than claiming to BE a system of battlefield spear training.
In the weapons-centric koryu I study, we spend time training with the weapons - stances, basic cuts, drills and the like. These inherently develop the body movement required.
Last edited by Finny on Fri Nov 06, 2020 3:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 5:09 am

Whatever. I have never seen you post anything that even remotely indicates that you have an understanding of TCMA, which you don't train by your own admission. Speaking of maturity, aren't you the idiot that suggested we fence with real swords? Clearly your twenty years could have better been spent elsewhere...
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Finny on Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:22 am

Cool. Not really trying to convince you of anything - you could ask, but seem more interested in telling people who and what they are.

MaartenSFS wrote:Speaking of maturity, aren't you the idiot that suggested we fence with real swords? Clearly your twenty years could have better been spent elsewhere...


No, I'm not that idiot. Must be another one. Thanks for your assessment.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:02 am

Finny wrote:Cool. Not really trying to convince you of anything - you could ask, but seem more interested in telling people who and what they are.

MaartenSFS wrote:Speaking of maturity, aren't you the idiot that suggested we fence with real swords? Clearly your twenty years could have better been spent elsewhere...


No, I'm not that idiot. Must be another one. Thanks for your assessment.

You don't do CMA yet feel the need to come on here and troll and you don't fence, yet call other forms of swordsmanship a game. I don't need to know any more...
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby windwalker on Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:11 am

Finny wrote:What a load of wank. I don't believe that guy has never actually fought anyone.


posted the clips in question....They do fight in Singapore, if in doubt one can always find out.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4irigeKP72w

some of his students...

Like his work, and evolution of thoughts and ideas.

Regardless of whether one agrees with it or not, they do train and use what they train.

One of the older posters here who no longer posts considering comments like yours and others, kinda understandable,
did the translations, and english dubbing of his teacher.

Doing so feeling it might be an aide for those not speaking Chinese to understand some of the basic concepts talked about here.

Those who've trained in China, MaartenSFS , ect mentioned, it's not something talked about much.

It's practiced, demonstrated, understood, through development and usage. The often repeated " no one agrees on it"
is really not true, among those who practice it, there may be some variation in thought and usage
the underlying principles are the same.
Last edited by windwalker on Sat Nov 07, 2020 7:51 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Finny on Fri Nov 06, 2020 9:19 am

MaartenSFS wrote:..I have never seen you post anything that even remotely indicates that you have an understanding of TCMA...


I remember when you said the same thing to John Wang.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:44 am

No, I said that about Fajin. I am sure that he is very well-versed in wrestling and Shaolin-based arts that do not train explosive Fajin. I would LOVE to learn Shuaijiao from him. He constantly shares his training and it is obvious that he trains diligently.
Last edited by MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 10:52 am

windwalker wrote:
Finny wrote:What a load of wank. I don't believe that guy has never actually fought anyone.


posted the clips in question....They do fight in Singapore, if in doubt one can always find out.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4irigeKP72w

some of his students...

Like his work, and evolution of thoughts and ideas.

Regardless of whether one agrees with it or not, they do train and use what they train.

One of the older posters here who no longer posts considering comments like this and others, kinda understandable,
did the translations, and english dubbing of his teacher.

Doing so feeling it might be an aide for those not speaking Chinese to understand some of the basic concepts talked about here.

Those who've trained in China, MaartenSFS , ect mentioned, it's not something talked about much.

It's practiced, demonstrated, understood, through development and usage. The often repeated " no one agrees on it"
is really not true, among those who practice it, there may be some variation in thought and usage
the underlying principles are the same.

I can see a little bit of the training in that sparring clip. The guy in blue spars exactly how I used to before I was able to make many of the trapping techniques and combinations work.
Exactly, most of the topics debated on here are just a part of training in China and people just get on with it and learn to use it. Do swimmers debate about which strokes work or how to properly do them in a classroom setting or do they jump in the pool and swim?!
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby Bhassler on Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:26 am

MaartenSFS wrote:Do swimmers debate about which strokes work or how to properly do them in a classroom setting or do they jump in the pool and swim?!


https://www.dotcomwomen.com/lifestyle/s ... ine/25362/
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby MaartenSFS on Fri Nov 06, 2020 11:36 am

Oh... My... God...
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby johnwang on Fri Nov 06, 2020 1:01 pm

Yeung wrote:1. Store and then issue

I prefer to call it "compress and release". The key point is to "hide the compress at the end of your previous move".

You need time and space to do so. But in fighting, you don't always have time to do a 100% compressing. This is why people say that most Baiji guys may have bad temper, because they don't always have chance to complete their full "compress and release".

By using the long fist method of Fajin. you use

- jab to set up cross.
- right hook to set up left hook.
- back palm to set up side kick.
- comb hair to set up head lock.
- neck chop to set up body squeeze.
- hammer fist to set up straight punch.
- ...

After many years of CMA training, your "compress" can be hidden by your combo training. You hide the compress at the end of your previous move. This way the Faiji will always be with you for the rest of your life.

Long fist form Chaquan #4 - neck chop, body squeeze combo.

Image

Long fist form Taizu chang quan - Hammer fist, straight punch combo.

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A definition of Fa Jin (發勁)

Postby edededed on Fri Nov 06, 2020 8:21 pm

(The 1st video - isn't that Chaquan #4? Still longfist though anyway.)

But good to see the compress and release in longfist (I never went too far in that art, so do not really understand it).
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