Bing Jin 掤勁

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby Yeung on Sun Nov 08, 2020 3:26 am

Windwalker: “short power” "bing jin" tends to break the structure.

Bing jin 掤勁 or some people called it peng jin 棚勁, Bing is an old Chinese word for Quiver cover and my postulation is that it is attached to the quiver and springs open when it is in use. It is an appropriate word to describe springiness in Taijiquan.

Shen (1963, p15) described bing jin as the general characteristics of stretchy and stringy in all the 8 different techniques (bīng, lǚ, jǐ, àn, cǎi, liè, zhǒu, kào) and also as the techniques which is the outward rotation of the arm with the centre of palm from pointing inward to pointing outward. For lie jin 挒勁, is described as a short distance strike or maybe “short power” and as an example of store and issue.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby Bao on Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:47 am

In Tai Chi “pengjin” Is the correct expression and the correct character for peng is 掤. The pronunciation found in modern dictionaries is “bing”, but peng was used in older times. So we say “peng” and use this character. Using 棚 is a mistake and has led to misunderstandings.

From an old interview with Ma Yueliang who addressed this issue:

What is Peng Jin and is it better to maintain a little in the arms for example to prevent people from coming in?

People misunderstand Peng. There is another word with the same sound and only one stroke different that means something like structure or framework and people often think this is what is meant by Peng. If you base your Taiji on this incorrect meaning of Peng then the whole of your Taiji will be incorrect. Peng Jin is over the whole body and it is used to measure the strength and direction of the partners force. But it is incorrect to offer any resistance. It should be so light that the weight of a feather will make it move. It can be described like water which will, with no intention of its own, support equally the weight of a floating leaf or the weight of a floating ship. Then he added in English: “Peng Jin is sensitivity”.
Last edited by Bao on Sun Nov 08, 2020 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon Nov 09, 2020 11:04 am

It needs a proper structure and framework ( 棚 ) to develop Peng/Bing (掤) jin through Stretchiness and stringiness of the whole body. Relaxation and lightness are essential in Peng/Bing Jin (掤勁) to be able to feel and measure the strength and direction of the move and forece coming in. The change from one posture to another will lead the already existed Peng/Bing Jin (掤勁) to bring off other jins. Throughout the change and execution, Peng/Bing Jin (掤勁) is still there and is always there. The old masters then introduce Yin and Zhen into the execution. They also said Fajin is the combination of Jing, Qi and Zhen (精,氣,神). It is a layer after layer progression.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby suckinlhbf on Mon Nov 09, 2020 12:06 pm

not something is ethically used in sparring or training if the skill set is real

Not to be used in any circumstances other than in life survival situation if you have the real skill set. It hurts deep and the injuries are hard to recover. The power/force as shown on youtube could be used in training and sparring.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby Yeung on Tue Nov 10, 2020 10:41 am

From Yang Chenfu, Taiijiquan functional manual: pushing hands太极拳体用全书推手, 1933:

A rough transliteration:

“The method of “Bing” outwards is to control the enemy's pressing hand, so that the chest and abdomen are protected, so it is called Bing. The meaning of this word is slightly different from that of Shuowen Jieze (Ancient Chinese). The method of Bing is as shown in the figure, and the usage is the same for left and right. Avoid stiffness and immobility, and also avoid late and heavy. The stiff player does not know his own movement. Those who are immobile do not know the enemy's choice, and do not know oneself or the other. Therefore they cannot practice pushing hands properly. Those who are late and heavy must be using their [brute] forces to resist others, and they will become dead hands. These are not used by Taijiquan practitioners or to be called Bing. Sticking is also not resisting. When I stretch my hands outwards to block, I also ready to retract. Without letting the opponent’s hand gets too close to my chest, I just turn my waist (midsection) to neutralize, thus Bing is completed.”

掤法向外,驾驭敌人之按手,使不得按至胸腹贴近,故曰掤。此掤字取意,与说文释义稍异。掤之方式,如图,左右同其用法。最忌板滞,又忌迟重。板者,不知自己之运动。滞者,不知敌人之取舍,既不知己,又不知彼,则不成其为推手矣。迟重者,必以力御人,便成死手,非太极家之所取也,必曰掤者。粘也非抗也,手向外掤,意欲粘回,又不使己之掤手与胸部贴近,得此劲全赖转腰,一转腰则我之掤势已成矣。
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:05 am

Yeung wrote:From Yang Chenfu, Taiijiquan functional manual: pushing hands太极拳体用全书推手, 1933:

A rough transliteration:



You and some others are confusing "bing" 冰 "ice" with "pung or peng".

"bing jin" quite literally "cold power" a term used by the group I trained with in Beijing used to describe, shocking, short type of power.

as " suckinlhbf " echoed a type of "jin" not normally used due to its nature,
cultivated as a natural course of training.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby suckinlhbf on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:40 am

Oh.... It is a confusion in translating a Chinese character to English word.... 冰, 掤, and 棚. They all have different meanings in Chinese.
Last edited by suckinlhbf on Tue Nov 10, 2020 11:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby windwalker on Tue Nov 10, 2020 12:09 pm

The Chinese word bing - 冰 - bīng
(ice in Chinese)


Yep looking like some might be confused :)
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:02 pm

Cold shaking energy contains Peng but is not the same as Peng
The key phrase is
Opening and closing in a split second
It is not concrete it is lightening
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: Bing Jin 掤勁

Postby Yeung on Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:48 am

Bing Jin is just muscle elasticity?
Image
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