origami_itto wrote:But then who sets the standards? What are they based on? What are you certifying? How does that allow for innovation and prevent entropy?
Would standards for Chen Taijiquan be the same as for Yang? I liq Chuan?
Standards are a way of enforcing a dominant perspective but particularly in areas like this I believe we're best served by many perspectives.
Surely, within a school or lineage, you want a single perspective. You're advancing a particular line of teaching. But who is to say it's appropriate for, say, you, to sit on a board and make decisions about what, say, Doc can teach and how he should teach it and how he should verify progress in his students.
You haven't studied what he studied and therefore don't understand it, you certainly aren't qualified to regulate it.
I think you're highlighting an important distinction here.
Q: But then who sets the standards? What are they based on? What are you certifying? How does that allow for innovation and prevent entropy?
A: That would be me. I'm an inheritor and a teacher. I judged my first international tai chi tournament in 1995. I've been judging tai chi internationally longer than some people here have been alive. Am I embellishing a little? Well yes and no, but the point is... even when someone is skilled, or has the capacity to judge, or even is unskilled but is placed in the position of judge for practical reasons (not enough judges -- hey kid, come here)...
...there's a caveat:
Q: Would standards for Chen Taijiquan be the same as for Yang? I liq Chuan?
A: No! While Sun Lu Tang may have said all the internal arts come from a common principle, this is not understood very clearly in that some people use it to say all the arts are basically the same. There are some common methods and ideas, but they branch out at relatively early stages. And while some core ideas remain the same they can be expressed differently. It becomes difficult to accurately judge someone's shapes when you are from a different art. But I will say this, when someone is high level and gives a demonstration you can often tell by the alive nature of their presentation that they are high level. I saw Wai Lun Choi demonstrate LHBF and it was visibly dangerous. I got the sense he could destroy Jacky Chan in a fight, that's how badass his
form looked. His
form. Imagine just touching hands with someone like that. But I digress.
Q: Standards are a way of enforcing a dominant perspective but particularly in areas like this I believe we're best served by many perspectives.
A: I'd disagree. At some point in your career, especially once you have been learning for quite some time, especially as a disciple, you either were given or were forced to make certain "decisions" on what things meant. Sometimes it's because you go from one level to another so you "assume" that your training, ideology and methodology was largely correct to get you from A to B (now that you are at C) so you just assume that your way is the correct way, or at least one good way to get from A to B. The problem is that you have to base everything on the platform of ideas methods moves skills jibengong philosophy etc. that you were taught and have chosen to follow. It doesn't necessarily translate. It's not guaranteed that anyone outside of your system (or even your school) will relate to the analogies you have come up with to describe how to progress. Sometimes you will rant an eloquent explanation of everything and no one will understand it because their basis for comparison is just so different. Sometimes it's because they have a different basis, sometimes because they don't have a basis. But it's different for everyone.
But not for your students. As a student it then becomes our responsibility to follow the system laid out for us by our teacher. If we are surfing many different ideas, it is my opinion that is a translation of 'I haven't found a sifu yet'.
Q: Surely, within a school or lineage, you want a single perspective. You're advancing a particular line of teaching. But who is to say it's appropriate for, say, you, to sit on a board and make decisions about what, say, Doc can teach and how he should teach it and how he should verify progress in his students.
Sometimes a little quality control can be good but you must take it upon yourself, or hope your sifu does it for you. Look at the T.T. Liang video. It's an "half-power" form. But some people try to copy his exact movements like it's something special. I know people that actually try to move like that. Spry young athletic types. Copying the shortcuts that some people put into their forms, copying half-power movements, crooked kicks, and so on. Why would anyone want to do that? For example IIRC Feng removed the kicks in his form. Is there anything wrong with that? No... But everyone has to follow and explore their capacity. Your capacity is not necessarily indicative of your skill in the art. They are separate things. It's important to understand this. You have to be able to see a persons' capacity as well as their skill level and judge if each one is being expressed to it's fullest level.
So there are ways to judge others, but it's impolite to attack people or to do it like an insult. Everyone has something to learn from others. it's best to be open minded. But no, no one gets to set a standard that others are forced to follow. Yet if your own students do not follow your standard how can they be called your students?
So we reach the conclusion that there are different levels of players; there are outside the door students and inside the door students. There are also not-your-students, I suppose
Q: You haven't studied what he studied and therefore don't understand it, you certainly aren't qualified to regulate it.
A: Yes, qualified to judge. I don't mean walking up to someone and criticizing the hell out of their form. I mean for your own benefit. It is a valuable skill. Fast eyes. See once and copy. It's a skill you can get from judging. Or being open hearted enough to realize such a thing is possible. You have to be able to evaluate other people at some point. If you have reached a high enough level it does not matter what the words are. You know -- you can see it, you can feel it. It is often said that with one touch you can evaluate someone. Well for me it requires three or four touches and often me getting thrown on my butt
but i'm working on it.
In conclusion there may be many traditions and many are right, as many are wrong. I think the survivor-ship of ideas and methods is good enough as is. Teach whatever you want. Let the best tradition win
There's always push hands to test out your ideas. If they're wrong, change 'em.
After all haven't you ever noticed, that even though everyone's tai chi form looks different and there are so many styles.. that everyone pushes hands in the same format? I cannot be sure but I feel therein lies the secret of Tai Chi (at least) and I hope to discover it someday.