Luoyang city - melding of Moslem CMAs, Shandong Hua and XY

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Luoyang city - melding of Moslem CMAs, Shandong Hua and XY

Postby salcanzonieri on Sun Jan 10, 2021 5:54 pm

I am very curious of Luoyang city in Henan, and how different martial arts came together there that may have had strong influences on the development of Ma' XueLi's Xin Yi Liu He Quan.

1 - Wah / Hua Quan
2 - Shaolin Quan
3 - Ji Long Feng's martial art
4 - Muslim CMA

Jiazi Quan was an ancient Muslim martial art from western China that also was the basis from which the Muslim Cha Quan and Hua Quan systems in Shandong were developed from. Mi Zhong Quan also has a similar Jiazi Quan training set. Jiazi Quan’was also known as “Dajia Quan” - Large Frame Boxing, as was called the oldest branch of Meihua Zhuang. All three of these now widespread in Shandong styles originally came from Western China, suggesting that there may be a common source to the foundational material of the various Muslim practiced Shandong martial art styles. Meihua Zhuang also shares much with Liuhe Men, another Chinese Muslim practiced martial art.

Hua Quan 18 Louhan Hands - Luoyang Long Men Connection
(Famous Xin Yi Quan practitioner) Ma Xueli lived in Luoyang city, which was very close to the Shaolin temple. Luoyang is known for many martial arts styles. One such style that existed there from before Ji Longfeng’s time is called the “Long Men” (龍門) – Dragon’s Gate or School from Shanxi, which is now practiced in Luoyang within the “Zhong Hua Si Mian Ba Fang Tong Bei Quan” system. Long Men ancestor Wang Jiang (with his four apprentices), practiced this art secretly after coming to Jun Tun village (Luoyang), from Hongdong County (Shanxi Province) during the early Ming era (around 1300). Thus, long before the formation of Xinyi Quan.

Later, the next generation (consisting of Wang Leng Zi, Wang Jia Zi, and Wang Er Jia) at some point exchanged some of their skills with boxers from Shandong Province. They practiced a Long Men set called “Long Men Quan” (Dragon Gate Fist) that is also practiced with the same exact movements by the Cai family lineage of “Hua (華) Quan” – Glorious Boxing style, from Shandong province. This set is also practiced at Shaolin under the name “Luohan Shiba Shou” – Luohan 18 Hands. It is a two person set. In the two person version of this routine, side 1 can be done with a staff, side 2 with a knife or sword. It features the animal postures seen in Shandong Hua Quan, such as Eagle, Monkey, Leopard, Tiger, Dragon, and others.

The opening five movements that correspond to these animals are very similar to the Five Elements movements of Pi Quan, Zhuan Quan, Beng Quan, Pao Quan, and Heng Quan, which are foundational to Xinyi Quan / Xingyi Quan. The first four postures correspond faithfully. Originally in ancient times there were only four elements used, much later Heng (earth) was added. In Xing Yi, Heng (earth) is supposed to be all the other elements together as one, so it is at the center of the four elements. This is true of the fifth and sixth postures, if done successively they indeed correspond to the movements of Heng (earth) Quan as well. The rest of the postures correspond well to Dragon, Tiger, Horse, Hawk, Swallow, and other animal movements seen in Xinyi and Xingyi. Being that this set, originally from Shanxi (later found in Shandong), has been practiced in Luoyang for a few hundred years before Ji Longfeng’s art reached Ma Xueli of Luoyang, and was preserved by local Luoyang Tongbei Quan practitioners, and strikingly shares some important attributes with the Henan and Shanxi Xinyi based martial arts, its calls for more serious research to explore any possible root relationship they share, especially since these styles all converge within Luoyang.

Shaolin does have a set called The Shaolin Five Elements form, and it roughly follows the XYQ Five Elements Linking form, even has the turnaround with the repeat on the other side.

As far as Ma XueLi's inheritance of Ji LongFeng's martial art, according to XIn Yi Ba practitioners from Shaolin area of Henan, the transmission was as follows:

Ji Long Feng's martil art was taught to Shaolin by Wang Yi & Wang Kai 王益 王恺(1710-?)
They were the sons of Wang Zhicheng, and inherited the skills from their father. They spent their lives practicing and perfecting those skills, and from oral tradition we hear that they were also working as merchants at some point, and spent a lot of time in Dengfeng and in the Shaolin temple. What they practiced and taught retained the original simple but efficient flavor of Ji Long's teachings.
________________________________________

Wang Zhi Cheng 王志诚(1680-?)
Wang Zhicheng, one of Zheng Wukui's disciples, was from Xin'an County, Henan Province (He may have also been known a Henan Fu Li). He was a famous Martial Arts master during the Qianlong Dynasty. According to the manuscripts, he was taught by Zheng WuKui. He then wrote down everything he learned from him. Hu Zhengsheng has inherited several of his (original) writings, which summarize the theory of Xinyiba and Liuhequan.

According to some researchers, he is the one who taught Ma Xueli and Li Chunchen (which also makes more sense chronologically than the common lineage trees). Ma and later Dai Longbang further developed the style, and invented ten forms, Four Movements, etc. But prior to them, there were no Taolu / collections of movements.They created Xinyi Liu He Quan. Wang’s best and closest students were his two sons, who were also the ones who brought their knowledge once more into the Shaolin Temple.
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Zheng Wu Kui 郑武奎(1660-? )
Zheng Wukui (also known as Nan Shan Zheng), one of Ji Long's disciples, taught Martial Arts during Qianlong Dynasty, and was from Dengfeng County, Henan Province. He was recorded in the Nanshan Zheng Shi (Lit. "South of Mt. Song" - signifying Dengfeng - "Zheng family records") as well as in the documents written by his disciple Wang Zhicheng and various historical documents. (local gazzette) Zheng being from Dengfeng, it is most likely that the first contact between Shaolin Temple and Xinyiba was through him.

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Ji Long 姬龙 (1620-?)

Background
Ji Long (also known as Ji Longfeng, or Ji Jike - Lightning spear) from Longfeng county, Shanxi province was born in 1620 and started training martial arts when he was about 13 years old. He was engaged in the "Fan Qing, Fu Ming" movement (destroy the Qing, restore the Ming) and was especially well known for being a great spear fighter. During those times of turmoil, common people were not allowed to carry around weapons, so Ji Long started practicing his art without spear (turning it into an art of the fist).

According to one hypothesis, he visited the Shaolin Temple himself and eventually learned and taught material there. It is unknown whether not there was anything called Xinyi or Xinyiba in the temple before that. The most likely theory however is that it was his disciple Zheng Wukui who brought his knowledge to Dengfeng & Shaolin, since we know for sure that he was from Dengfeng, and that he was Ji Long's disciple.
Last edited by salcanzonieri on Sun Jan 10, 2021 9:23 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Luoyang city - melding of Moslem CMAs, Shandong Hua and XY

Postby Bao on Mon Jan 11, 2021 12:44 pm

Good break down and sum up. 8-)
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- To affect the quality of the day, is the highest of all arts! -Walden Thoreau
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Re: Luoyang city - melding of Moslem CMAs, Shandong Hua and XY

Postby nicklinjm on Mon Jan 11, 2021 6:33 pm

Very interesting Sal. Seems like most of the info about Zheng Wukui / Wang Zhicheng is coming from Hu Zhengsheng's line.

So according to your research, Xinyi Ba and Xinyi Liuhe basically diverged in the 2nd generation after Ji Longfeng?
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Re: Luoyang city - melding of Moslem CMAs, Shandong Hua and XY

Postby salcanzonieri on Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:21 pm

nicklinjm wrote:Very interesting Sal. Seems like most of the info about Zheng Wukui / Wang Zhicheng is coming from Hu Zhengsheng's line.

So according to your research, Xinyi Ba and Xinyi Liuhe basically diverged in the 2nd generation after Ji Longfeng?


It was a principle more than exactly a movement.
Ji Long Feng introduced the principle, merging all his knowledge from Spear and from Shaolin animal sets / basics.
Then brought it back to Shaolin and there they have various sets that have Rooster techniques that are said to have come there from Ji's teachings.

Later, after Ji started teaching others, there came a divergence, maybe more than one.
The Xin Yi Ba that was incorporated into Shaolin became absorbed and evolved.

The material he taught to others that wen to Dengfeng and then to Louyang is another branch, which seems to have been influenced by the Five Elements sets found there.
Perhaps Ma blended both to create the Ma Xin Yi Liu He Quan that stems from Luoyang.
I can't see how he as a martial artist didn't encounter this material that was imported from Shanxi since the Ming dynasty,


Dengfeng village's Shaolin is heavily influenced by Ji's principles/ ideas.
Their version Shaolin sets look different.
Last edited by salcanzonieri on Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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