the training purpose of tangnibu

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby .Q. on Wed Jan 27, 2021 4:09 pm

Tangnibu helps to train how to maintain structural connection while moving. Once you build the habit you don't have to walk via tangnibu in order to maintain structure. It's also used to train certain footwork that require good ground sensitivity. It's designed to be harder than your actual need for combat. It's the same concept as walking around with ankle weights. You don't go into the ring wearing them.
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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby Trick on Thu Jan 28, 2021 8:20 am

GrahamB wrote:
greytowhite wrote:Honestly, I see more of Pencak Silat in Baguazhang than anything...


You've got Silat, I've got Mongolia, Scott P Philips has Nezha and his firewheels.... there are only more questions :)

Image

the vikings, it was the viking explorers moving eastward that inspired the easterners to come up with their bagua https://gnosticwarrior.com/the-helm-of-awe.html
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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby D_Glenn on Fri May 07, 2021 11:44 am

According to Xie Peiqi, the sliding the front foot was initially a small misunderstanding, that grew into a monster. One of the goals in Bagua circle walking and in stepping drills, is to barely pick the whole foot off the ground and hover it as it’s moving as low as you can keep it. This results in fast stepping, since the foot can be more quickly placed on the ground when needed, and it helps your feet to, without looking, find where the opponent’s feet are because your feet are not above theirs. There’s other reasons as well. But when observing an expert Bagua practitioner, the on-looker can’t really tell if the foot is sliding or hovering. Especially on natural or rough terrain. So somewhere along the way, or in multiple instances, the error occurred.

So why is it a monster. Because from a tcm perspective, a person who walks while sliding their feet on the ground is really in a sad state of affairs. A) because their energy is so low that they started doing it, B) because the dispersion and loss of energy that is occurring with each slide is exacerbating their grave state.

So sliding the foot, is a dispersion of energy with a negative impact on health. Circle Walking is a great builder of energy, probably the best exercise there is to strengthen the body, so if anyone does Circle Walking they should be better off afterwards than they were before, and noticeably. But let us say that Circle Walking fills your cup 100% full. But sliding the foot disperses that and it’s like pouring half that cup out and it’s only half full. But you still have 50% more than you had before you did it, so you still noticeably feel good. But you’re just not getting or realizing the actual benefits that you could be getting.

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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby Doc Stier on Fri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm

Agreed. Good post! Tell it, brother, tell it. 8-)
Last edited by Doc Stier on Fri May 07, 2021 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby shawnsegler on Sat May 08, 2021 4:28 am

You've got Silat, I've got Mongolia, Scott P Philips has Nezha and his firewheels.... there are only more questions :)


Says the guy who:

A: doesn't do Bagua and..
B: Just did a podcast where he and the person he was doing the podcast with went on about "Bagua only uses palms" which is a boatload of ignorance all it's own.

See, this is what bothers me about Scott and lately you, Graham...it's this very Trumpian "Saying things that are outrageous and crazy as a means of whipping up confusion for attention and as advertisement" because there's always stupid people out there who'll go along with stupidity and lies as long as they're said often enough with a "straight face".

It's super tiresome and says "I don't care about what's true as long as I get something out of it."

This "You've got this and I've got that and Scotts got his thing..there are only more questions" is hogwash. All you're doing is trying to equate those things as if they're equal and they're not. Your "expert" the other day was quick enough to point out "There's no we we can know this....but, since I'm saying THIS, we'll just act as if it's so" and that about sums up how you're acting on this topic, except for instead of "There's no way we can know this", you have a lot of people with years of experience saying things that have actual validity.

You've truly gone full Troll.

FWIW.

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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby D_Glenn on Sat May 08, 2021 10:24 am

Image

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Last edited by D_Glenn on Sat May 08, 2021 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby D_Glenn on Sat May 08, 2021 11:12 am

Thanks Doc!

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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby meeks on Sat May 08, 2021 10:28 pm

tang ni bu doesn't translate as 'sliding mud step'. it's closer to 'wading mud step'... as if you're deep in mud and need to lift your hips (to raise your foot out of the mud) which on the outside looks like simply engaging the foot to disconnect it from the ground, then pushing the hip through the leg to 'sink it back into the mud' as you reconnect the foot to the ground. This action is performed without 'expressing' it - you don't raise your foot 'up and out of the mud' - as D_Glenn mentioned, it simply looks like your foot has skimmed the earth as it moves from one position to the other.
This is accomplished by focusing on the back leg (or more accurately, the leg that is touching the ground), which most people ignore - often simply focusing on the action of the front foot (slide the left foot, slide the right foot). Many modern contemporary bagua schools practise what can be called 'rolling pencil stepping'... whereby they slide the foot as if rolling a pencil under the front foot. Many of the modern schools also work on generating as long of a stride as possible which can be achieved by allowing the heel to lift in favor of a longer, lower stride.
So the benefits of practising tang ni bu help develop 'full body movement' where the lifting of the hip is a coordination of muscles going from the hips all the way up the spine. yes, at the end of the step there is 'cuo' which is an action similar to grinding stones under the feet, but that is not the primary focus of tang ni bu. This 10 minute explanation is just the tip of the iceberg of tang ni bu as an exercise. When combined with other aspects of circle walking principles (lifting the sexual organs, the perenium, the anus, etc..) it's the first stage of iron palm/iron vest development.
Last edited by meeks on Sat May 08, 2021 10:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: the training purpose of tangnibu

Postby D_Glenn on Sat May 15, 2021 7:53 am

Adding to what Meeks wrote, Tang Ni Bu is not really a type or different category of stepping, it’s not like the types: lion, crane, water dripping, etc.

It’s a general requirement/ principal that is used when stepping, like Scissor Leg Stepping, which simply means the thighs should rub together as you’re stepping around the circle. My teacher said to think of walking/ carefully stomping through calf deep thick sticky mud, the kind that forms a suction of air when you’re stepping out of it. Where in order to not lose your shoes and socks in the mud, you have to use the muscles in your legs to keep your foot flat as it’s lifting up out of the mud, basically lifting toes first, instead of heel first where the mud would pull your shoe off. It’s a slight isometric/ mental tension that you need to think about as you’re stepping around.

***
And another thing about sliding the foot, if it’s not on a slick surface with no friction at all, then it might be okay, but if it’s a rough surface and the footwear one has on, is dragging or sticking, then it will, overtime, damage the patellar tendon below the kneecaps. Fwiw

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Last edited by D_Glenn on Sat May 15, 2021 8:13 am, edited 3 times in total.
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