Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby wingchun on Wed Feb 10, 2021 12:25 pm

Anyone know what Yi-Quan grandmaster Wang Xiangzhai learnt from from Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu whom defeated him 10 out of 10 times? or which skillsets or aspects were incorporated from grandmaster Jie Tiefu teachings into Yi-Quan?
Last edited by wingchun on Wed Feb 10, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
wingchun
Mingjing
 
Posts: 86
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 7:51 am

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby dacheng on Thu Feb 11, 2021 8:41 am

Nobody knows. It is even very doubtful that Jie Tiefu (or Xie Tiefu) was actually doing Xingyi/Xinyi. At some period of time Wang Xiang had idea that all styles originated from xinyi, which was created by Bodhidharma, and later just lost the original simplicity. So at least in some period he tended to describe anything which was efficient and without flowery as xinyi. Generally unless you are able to ask Wang Xiangzhai or Jie Tiefu directly, all information you can get is just a few vague phrases repeated in chinese sources, based on what Wang Xiangzhai said almost a century ago, and which will probably mislead you, if you would really believe that Jie Tiefu was actually doing some branch of xingyi or xinyi. Please note that even in relation to white crane masters and other styles masters from Fujian province, Wang Xiangzhai was using the term xinyi, just because he appreciated their skills. As I wrote above, his idea was: the higher skill and less flowery, the closer it was to his idea of original Bodhidharma's xinyi.
User avatar
dacheng
Wuji
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 1:50 am
Location: Poland, Europe

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby jbb73 on Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:20 am

dacheng wrote:Nobody knows. It is even very doubtful that Jie Tiefu (or Xie Tiefu) was actually doing Xingyi/Xinyi. At some period of time Wang Xiang had idea that all styles originated from xinyi, which was created by Bodhidharma, and later just lost the original simplicity. So at least in some period he tended to describe anything which was efficient and without flowery as xinyi. ... As I wrote above, his idea was: the higher skill and less flowery, the closer it was to his idea of original Bodhidharma's xinyi.


Never heard the claim that Bodhidharma should have invented Xinyi (only Yue Fei). Where does this come from?
Bodhidharma is said to have invented the two classics of Yijinjing and Xisuijing; and some claim Shaolin as origin of Xinyiba. Is that what you mean?
jbb73
Mingjing
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:29 pm

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby dacheng on Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:22 am

This comes from Wang Xiangzhai himself. He developed such an opinion. You can read this in his own preface to his early work "The right path of Yiquan":

"During Liang Dynasty Damo (Bodhidharma) came to the east. Apart from teaching Buddhist
sutras, he also practiced art of exercising tendons and bones. He collected those characteristics
of various animals and birds, which give them advantage in fighting, mixed them with
methods of washing bone marrow and changing tendons, and created yiquan, also known as
xinyiquan".
User avatar
dacheng
Wuji
 
Posts: 746
Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 1:50 am
Location: Poland, Europe

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby Trick on Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:36 am

Thanks Dacheng for clarifying, till now I had though that perhaps WXZ had suspected that the white crane of Fujian had an direct connection with XYQ or at least shared the same source of origin ...As I understand, in the Crane tradition of Fujian it’s also believed their Sanchin kata has an direct origin with Bodhidharma..
Trick

 

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby jbb73 on Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:20 am

dacheng wrote:This comes from Wang Xiangzhai himself. He developed such an opinion. You can read this in his own preface to his early work "The right path of Yiquan":

"During Liang Dynasty Damo (Bodhidharma) came to the east. Apart from teaching Buddhist
sutras, he also practiced art of exercising tendons and bones. He collected those characteristics
of various animals and birds, which give them advantage in fighting, mixed them with
methods of washing bone marrow and changing tendons, and created yiquan, also known as
xinyiquan".


Thanks, indeed strange.
jbb73
Mingjing
 
Posts: 63
Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2015 12:29 pm

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby yeniseri on Sun Mar 07, 2021 11:47 am

Trick wrote:Thanks Dacheng for clarifying, till now I had though that perhaps WXZ had suspected that the white crane of Fujian had an direct connection with XYQ or at least shared the same source of origin ...As I understand, in the Crane tradition of Fujian it’s also believed their Sanchin kata has an direct origin with Bodhidharma..


That is a most excellent point, The Bubishi Okinawan connection to South China, the Sanchin Template along with a fellow (recent) named Jesse Enkamp shows a strong link within the Asian MA intersectionalty! Even before that there was a book I came across by some fellow in the UK on the origins of kata, taolu, etc that have lost track with their origins but nevertheless shows us that this new thing we practice is not the same and never was but the names stick and we are stuck to that modern descriptive.
Link to Jessee Enkamp: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCvimTuwkZY
Great background we all know (by now)
When fascism comes to US America, It will be wrapped in the US flag and waving a cross. An astute patriot
yeniseri
Wuji
 
Posts: 3352
Joined: Sat Dec 12, 2009 1:49 pm
Location: USA

Re: Xing-Yi grandmaster Jie Tiefu

Postby wayne hansen on Mon Mar 08, 2021 2:07 am

I have a great photo of Hsu Hong Chi demonstrating the difference of Japanese and Chinese versions of San Chin
Hsu studied white crane and included quite a few of their exercises along with the Tien Kan
I still practice those exercises daily and they get deeper and deeper
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
wayne hansen
Wuji
 
Posts: 3984
Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 1:52 pm


Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yeung and 16 guests