the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

The human body is not equal all over

ok

There are different levels of understanding.

If one knows proper pushing and application there is no need to make the form pushing
Distance and timing are in pushing and application
Power and yielding in San shou but more importantly in the pole San shou

rojcewiczj wrote:I think it largely comes down to the timing of your moves, if the timing is correct, you can apply your body power and destabilize people, if your timing is off then your power decreases as far off as your timing gets. I think the form should be trained with the timing you want to fight with, but not necessary the tempo.

Yes now I’m with your thinking. And the teaching of correct timing is in the form if it has been handed down intact with the necessary Yi method, if not, if just a physical exersice it’s lost, in that case maby the correct method can be rediscovered in the form by the clever if the physical form learned hasn’t gone too off track......

. There are applications that are dependent upon timing to work. However, there are lots that have little to do with timing, per se, and much more to do with position, leverage, feeling/listening, etc.

Feeling/listening is our inborn senses, this is the tool(s) we use to develop correct sense of timing in our actions toward the forces that surrounds us. With correct sense of timing we correctly position ourself as we go along in life..the leverage is on our side...

Is it safe to pull your opponent's head into your knee?

To say that there is "power" in the form, for me, is to say that their is an intent that can handle the introduction of resistance. One simple way that this can be done is to have a clear sense of the overall direction of your body. Meaning, making sure that, in every movement you have a sense of the direction your body force is moving into.

If I had to narrow it down to one thing that CMA must do differently than striking arts in order to be effective, its the directional movement of the body. Meaning, you cant stand in one spot and use techniques from Xingyi or some other style and expect great results. You need to be moving in like an agile Sumo wrestler, cutting angles as you go, but always moving the body on a line, in some direction.

You can train forms in this manner by focusing on the intent for the whole body to move and act on the desired line, and the ability to adjust that like (cut angles) quickly and easily.

I have attempted to train this by standing chest deep in the ocean
with moderate waves and doing form practice.

As soon as there is a push on the body from an unexpected angle or to an unexpected place the next move changes so does the response
To continue on with the same form or move shows lack of awareness to that disruption

windwalker wrote:

The human body is not equal all over

ok

There are different levels of understanding.

Of course there are different levels of understanding. I interpreted what was originally asked as questions from an average practitioners point of view about things concerning form practice. How your intent can create a round sphere without gaps could be interesting to discuss and is a valid topic. However, I am not sure if the ideals of old masters can help an average, normal practitioner with the practical things asked in this thread. I would be delighted to discuss these things in a separate thread. Here my concern is not about portraying myself of any kind of level, but to give my thoughts from the level of the question.

wayne hansen wrote:As soon as there is a push on the body from an unexpected angle or to an unexpected place the next move changes so does the response
To continue on with the same form or move shows lack of awareness to that disruption

Agreed.

Bao wrote:
Here my concern is not about portraying myself of any kind of level, but to give my thoughts from the level of the question.

So you feel compelled to refute information offered from a different view point, you don't seem to understand.

Information offered in a discussion can be understood in many different ways depending on level, experience, and ability.

for example

roger hao : I have attempted to train this by standing chest deep in the ocean
with moderate waves and doing form practice.

A better way, maybe more productive, might be to understand that You’re already at the bottom of an ocean of air.
Try to get to a point where you can feel it...

Where does heaven on earth begin?... For me it's 1cm above earth.

windwalker wrote:So you feel compelled to refute information offered from a different view point, you don't seem to understand.
Information offered in a discussion can be understood in many different ways depending on level, experience, and ability.

I tried to answer you politely and explain that I am not trying to argue with you or shut you down.

Different viewpoints are just fine. However I addressed what you replied to me and how you replied on what I wrote, and not your general ideas which are just fine.

You can reply to the topic however you want. But if I feel that you try to confuse what I write, I will object to this.

You keep repeating that I don’t understand and imply that my level is too low. This is not a good starting point to have any kind of discussion and I am not going to continue arguing with you. Please bring to the plate whatever you got, I am sure it would be interesting to many here, but if you would let me stay out of further discussion we don’t need to waste time and effort.

rojcewiczj wrote:
Anyways, I'd be very interested to hear peoples perspective on this topic. On the idea of being able to deal with resistance applied while your doing the choreography of a form.

"Resistance"

One way to "deal" with it, is understand it comes from one's self.
All resistance is from the self. unable to change either inside or outside.


In what some may view as "Static" posture, what is being tested is "central equilibrium"


This should be manifested through all parts of the body, from the center.


If it"s not "equal" there will be "gaps" that some speak of being able to find.

If it is "equal" , any and all parts have the power of the center,

like an inflated ball.

Some have pointed out that the body is not equal in dimension, very true.

Once one understands their own center based on "their" body,
and acts from this point using the mind to feel and make the connections physical and non physical,
the body will respond to an outer force much like a ball at any point touched.





stillness within movement, movement within stillness, the ability that one has acquired through practice to maintain central equilibrium when they are moving or static.
Most teachers tend to test static postures understanding that moving posters are more about the transition between them. another type of "gap"

This seems to be what is being asked about. The ability to have central equilibrium in movement with out gaps in central equilibrium.

This teacher demonstrates how he can manifest this movement as his students test it.

Note: a demo between the students and teacher, allowing his students to feel some of the principles he's talking about.




edited: same teacher should play in china.

https://www.ixigua.com/6799439156679279116?wid_try=1

rojcewiczj wrote:To say that there is "power" in the form, for me, is to say that their is an intent that can handle the introduction of resistance. One simple way that this can be done is to have a clear sense of the overall direction of your body. Meaning, making sure that, in every movement you have a sense of the direction your body force is moving into.

If I had to narrow it down to one thing that CMA must do differently than striking arts in order to be effective, its the directional movement of the body. Meaning, you cant stand in one spot and use techniques from Xingyi or some other style and expect great results. You need to be moving in like an agile Sumo wrestler, cutting angles as you go, but always moving the body on a line, in some direction.

You can train forms in this manner by focusing on the intent for the whole body to move and act on the desired line, and the ability to adjust that like (cut angles) quickly and easily.

Yes Xingyiquan has this very clear and it should be hard to miss how to practice correct..
Taijiquan can be a little more tricky since focused awareness/intent is to be more so all around at same time which is also somewhat true for Xingyiquan too but not in an perfect circle/sphere way