What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby GrahamB on Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:41 pm

What are the internal martial arts? Does the term "Internal Martial Arts" have any legitimacy? What is a "fake" martial art? All this and more is explored in our new episode.


https://www.spreaker.com/user/9404101/6 ... rtial-arts


I mean, we all know what internal is, right? ;)
I could be wrong.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Tom on Sun Mar 07, 2021 8:28 pm

Several answers, actually. ;)
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Bao on Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:15 am

Tom wrote:Several answers, actually. ;)


When I summed it all up I got:

“A Chinese non-Buddhist tradition martial art that hits with the dantian. “

Well... ok then :-\ :P
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby GrahamB on Mon Mar 08, 2021 4:26 am

Bao you missed the most important bit.... "... for old people." :D
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Bao on Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:02 am

"A Chinese non-Buddhist traditional martial art for old people that hits with the dantian"

Ok, makes more sense now I guess... ;D
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Steve James on Mon Mar 08, 2021 7:21 am

Why do you want to know?
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Kelley Graham on Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:22 am

A dry, humorless neuro-anatomy based version. https://sifuondemand.com/what-internal
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Tom on Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:41 am

Kelley Graham wrote:A dry, humorless neuro-anatomy based version. https://sifuondemand.com/what-internal


Wait . . . does something dry and humorless belong on RSF? :o

So now we have a dry, humorless neuro-fascial art for non-Buddhist Chinese people to hit themselves with their dantian . . . or something like that. ;D

I like the elements you wove into your discussion of "internal," Kelley. There is even more information and insight along those lines since you wrote that in 2016.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Kelley Graham on Mon Mar 08, 2021 10:04 am

Thx. As I learn, I share. There is so much depth to this material, expanding the definition to maintain, ‘Nothing to be added, nothing to be taken away’ is an ongoing challenge.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Bao on Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 am

"Nei" as internal comes from the same "nei" as in "neigong", "neijing" "neidan" = A tradition of Chinese internal practice. So internal martial arts = Martial arts that is based on traditional Chinese internal practice. Which means that ONLY a certain type of Chinese martial arts can be called "internal". ;)
Last edited by Bao on Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby GrahamB on Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:46 am

Names are boxes that people like to put things in. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet. The Tao that can be told is not the true Tao. Et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:33 am

@ Kelley Graham

Chinese Martial Arts are sometimes divided into two adversarial camps: Internal vs External.

https://sifuondemand.com/what-internal

Interesting write up, :)

just wondered how you came to find the terminology as "adversarial"
instead of donating different methods of practices that for the most part
are Incompatible with each other.

.

The question remains, "Where can we find common language?" I look to neuroanatomy.



Would not the common language be "Chinese" :-\
Understood within the cultural context it's referencing.
Understood in this case means ability ie skill, as acknowledged by those within the culture who would be
considered as authoritative or standards by which it's measured.

A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet


In China there is a saying

"Hanging up goat's heads and selling dog meat"


As with practices labeled "internal " there are things that people can do that can not be done or achieved using other methods.
In one sense the "label" doesn't matter in another sense it does if one is looking to develop the qualities or skill sets they seek deemed as internal.
All CMA practices use the same concepts unique to Chinese culture expressed in different ways.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby TrainingDummy on Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:20 pm

I would have liked the "Muay Thai is internal" thread dug into a little deeper.

Would give a clearer indicator of exactly what Damon thinks what is internal rather than the not this, not this (neti neti) dialogue
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby Kelley Graham on Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:47 pm

windwalker wrote:@ Kelley Graham

Chinese Martial Arts are sometimes divided into two adversarial camps: Internal vs External.

https://sifuondemand.com/what-internal

Interesting write up, :)

just wondered how you came to find the terminology as "adversarial"
instead of donating different methods of practices that for the most part
are Incompatible with each other.


Personal Experience of both camps. When I was a traditional Okinawan Karate guy, my test of the character of a prospective teacher was if he would talk trash about soft arts. It took me 5 years to find one who passed. Same for CIMA.

The question remains, "Where can we find common language?" I look to neuroanatomy.


£Would not the common language be "Chinese" :-\
Understood within the cultural context it's referencing.
Understood in this case means ability ie skill, as acknowledged by those within the culture who would be
considered as authoritative or standards by which it's measured.


Sure. Many have done so. I’m interested in more basic stuff. The things we all share as human beings, not only Mandarin speaking human beings. Speaking of context, the Mandarin Culture to which you refer no longer exists. I look for authenticity elsewhere.
Last edited by Kelley Graham on Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:34 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: What is internal? Finally, the answer...

Postby windwalker on Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:12 pm

Kelley Graham wrote:

Sure. Many have done so. I’m interested in more basic stuff. The things we all share as human beings, not only Mandarin speaking human beings. Speaking of context, Mandarin Culture to which you refer no longer exists. I look for authenticity elsewhere.


Could be wrong, Mandarin a language spoken within a culture.

Your experience and mine seems to be very different.
Those I've met and have learned from, very much use the language as written. They had the skill sets to allow one to feel the reality of what was written.
Among some of the older masters, some do use physics and other examples to convey what they feel would help others grasp it.



Thanks for the reply :)
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Mar 09, 2021 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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