Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Tatanka on Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:48 pm

(@) -oldman- -ban-
*DISCLAIMER: this has nothing to do with yin style baguazhang or any particular lineage of baguazhang, taijiquan, or xingyiquan.
this post is about the crab fist, which can be used within any martial art. this is a long joke, but i'm not sorry. you've been warned.
any earnest response to this post will be met with ridicule and then an earnest attempt to provide relevant data.
any ridiculous response to this post will be met with praise.*

they say when you lift a crab,
its comrades will try to pull it back down.
it's not that the crabs are trying to hold each other back;
they just don't want their buddy to get eaten.
we don't exactly pluck them up to the promised land.
i try to keep it together, and not take lessons on movement or music from humans too seriously.
almost every member of almost every other species seems so much more talented.
"mind your senses, but don't expect them to make sense." -me, just now

in taijiquan terms, the winding crab primarily makes use of the methods of "plucking" and "splitting."
obviously, it's not really taiji if we're not constantly making good use of "ward-off" and "roll-back."
once our claw is in place, it needn't be drawn back to strike again.
it can pierce, slice, clip, clamp, and wrench from where it is just fine.
any force that touches the body can be directed to and through every part, as permitted.
in the interest of adaptability and unpredictability, however, we do not rely exclusively on the claw.
through regular practice of "bump" and "elbow," all of the body's surfaces learn to bite,
and in time those surfaces become one durable and comfortable armor.

if you're into xingyi, just stand low and square, like horse riding stance,
but with knees and toes of both feet facing away from the body to the left and right, in line with the shoulders.
then do continuous rapid piquan with both sides,
using the hands like very plucky crane beaks that carry the momentum from the body through the pincers and leave hilarious welts or worse.
the clamps are also hilarious for throwing, but stay perpendicular. your front and back are exposed for bait.
wherever you're open, there you have space to clamp down.

the winding crab is known elsewhere as the "chain crane."

it seems flat, but it is quite round. straight lines in space are issued by way of spiral movement in the body.
the ends listen, the center speaks.

-sumo- stated simply; you just kick ass while making crab shapes and stepping sideways. pivot when necessary. -sumo-
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Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Trick on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:03 am

Michael Babin wrote:Re: Lobster Taiji

In a "pinch" one can substitute lobster for crab techniques; in fact, it's considered shellfish [sic] not to do so!




Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Trick on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:22 am

. Mantis shrimp are the heavyweight champions of the sea. Some species can kill competitors with a single blow, striking with specialized forelimbs at speeds up to 50 mph (80 kph) and peak forces of 1,500 newtons. Now, researchers are taking a closer look at the biomechanics of the mantis shrimp's knock out punch. And they're borrowing methodologies from the fields of physics and engineering to do it. ... xing-43037


Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Trick on Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:39 am

Trick wrote:
. Mantis shrimp are the heavyweight champions of the sea. Some species can kill competitors with a single blow, striking with specialized forelimbs at speeds up to 50 mph (80 kph) and peak forces of 1,500 newtons. Now, researchers are taking a closer look at the biomechanics of the mantis shrimp's knock out punch. And they're borrowing methodologies from the fields of physics and engineering to do it. ... xing-43037

More on the shrimp,
. To avoid turning these formidable weapons against their own species, the crustaceans have developed a form of ritualized combat that lets individuals compete without bludgeoning each other to death,


Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Bhassler on Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:34 am

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Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:18 am

It might not be lobster boxing it might be mantis shrimp that CTH refers to
It was translated to me as dragon prawn
It may well have been mantis shrimp he was referring to
After 40 years Colin's accent was still as thick as the day he arrived in Australia
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Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Trick on Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:32 am

Montague family teach something called Dragon Prawn..........However I’m just familiar with Tiger Prawns


Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby Daniel-san on Fri Apr 23, 2021 6:43 pm

In the curriculum of the Imperial Combats Arts school Crab is a sub-style of the Black Scorpion style.


Crab is the first complete ground style students learn at Imperial Combat Arts. Crab is a powerful and dynamic ground position used to fight standing opponents with focus on evasion vs strikes and weapons, anti-grappling, powerful kicks, reaps, sweeps, and throws. With level IV leg toughening Crab becomes a devastating ground-fighting art that specializes in breaking legs. ... tyles.html


Crab Style Kung Fu is a combat level martial art taught at Imperial Combat Arts school in Denver CO. Crab Kung Fu is a part of the vast ground combat system called Black Scorpion. In Black Scorpion the art of Crab Kung Fu represents being on your side and supine. From this position Crab is a powerful and dynamic ground style used to fight primarily versus standing opponents.
Crab Style Kung Fu masters powerful leg breaking kicks, reaps, sweeps, and throws. Crab is also a posture used in most weapon training, leg vs leg Chin Na, and for anti-grappling.
Crab Kung Fu fights primarily on the ground with just a handful of standing techniques. This style consists of 22 dynamic maneuvers (not counting any maneuvers that transition into the other Black Scorpion postures) that give Crab the ability to move quickly in all direction vs multiple opponents and apply powerful kicks, reaps, and throws, or evade attacks. As the first ground style students learn Crab is drilled extensively vs. all manner of aggressive attacks including stomps, kicks, weapons, thrown objects, and attempts to mount or grapple.
To truly master Crab Kung Fu requires highly toughened shins and feet as well as full body conditioning. Instructors at Imperial Combat Arts demonstrate the true power of Crab by kicking through staves, bats, and concrete, all from a supine position. Using Crabs unique body dynamics the styles practitioners can kick as hard from the ground as the strongest standing kicks. High level body conditioning is required for many standing Crab techniques that capture with leg chin na, or kick with immense power while falling to the ground.
The addition of weapons changes ground-fighting and grappling significantly, and is the primary focus of Black Scorpion. The Crab posture is one of the most used postures of Kung Fu, from which to fight from your back with weapons. This training includes the dynamic use of swords, spears, bows, and almost any other form of weapon, which today also includes shooting firearms from the ground. Ending up on the ground in the fray of real battle is as dangerous as it gets, training to fight from your back is a must.
When first beginning Crab students drill maneuvers, kicks, defenses, and evasion exercises to learn the style. Once students develop the strength and dynamic energy of the art, the basic exercises evolve into fast paced and intense drills vs moving targets, and multiple opponents. This high pressure training involves shouting, throw objects, specialized equipment, and all manner of attacks such as stomps, kicks, and strikes with training weapons. This punishing training helps ensure students can use their training in real combat situations.
There are several sets trained in Crab Kung Fu vs training partners. These two-man sets teach the timing of techniques, and develop skill in the style. Aside from this however most of Crabs kicks and throws cannot be trained on partners with anything near full force, because they're applied against vital points, or can break the legs. For these sets specialized equipment is used that allows students to work on techniques with abandon.
​It can take a couple years of leg toughening to begin to use this equipment.
Crab Kung Fu has several scissor and pincer style throws it performs with the legs. These dynamic throws are fast, powerful, and often damage the knees, or break the leg of opponents. Some of these throws can be trained slowly with training partners, many cannot. Crab practitioners train these throws aggressively with the intent to quickly injure opponents. As such some throws are only trained with full force on custom equipment. There are several types of combat and weapon dummies at Imperial Combat Arts indoor/outdoor school.
Crab Kung Fu uses a variety of reaps and sweeps in all eight directions of combat. These leg controls can be used to set up kicks, capture an opponent, or to bring them to the ground. Some of Crabs reaps and sweeps are tricky and unusual moves that lead into nasty leg breaks, or drop opponents into grappling and chin na holds. Training any of Crabs reaps, sweeps, or throws requires a partner well trained in falling, rolling, and break-falls. Untrained opponents could easily sustain secondary injuries from the ground impact.
Crab Kung Fu uses almost exclusively Ts'o Ku style Chin Na with the legs, and will transition into arts like Squid or Python for fully engaged grappling. This style of Chin Na allows Crab to keep opponents in kicking and throwing range if possible. A primary focus of Crab Kung Fu is anti-grappling, using its techniques to avoid becoming entangled with multiple opponents. If Crab is captured it transitions into other Black Scorpion or 8 Animal Styles that master the highest levels of combat grappling and chin na.
In Crab Style Kung Fu there are a series of techniques performed from standing, or low realm positions. These techniques often capture opponents in scissor or pincer style throws/locks while falling, or kick during a fall. Additionally some of these moves are ways that Crab creates separation and hits the ground in favorable positions. These kinds of techniques are important if being thrown, or caught in grappling, so that Crab can free itself from grappling, and remain mobile versus multiple opponents.
Crab Kung Fu has numerous techniques and maneuvers that transition it into all of the other Black Scorpion ground fighting positions. These other styles and positions combine to encompass all aspects of combat ground fighting. Of all of these styles Crab Kung Fu represents one of the most important ground positions for fighting on your back with weapons, kicking, throws, and anti-grappling. Transitioning to different postures and positions is a big part of training combat martial arts, as its crucial to be able to fight from any position.
Crab is just one the many positions trained in Black Scorpion. The different animal sub-styles of Black Scorpion represent all possible ground-fighting & grappling positions the human body can be in. Together these styles create a powerful & complex ground combat system. This complete martial art contains the highest levels of; toughening, body conditioning, strength training, weapon training, striking, kicking, grappling, throws, chokes, strangles, joint locks, and chin na. The Black Scorpion System is trained for real combat vs multiple opponents and blends seamlessly with all standing martial arts taught in The Imperial 8 Animal System and Wu Tang Ch'uan. The Black Scorpion Ground-fighting system had been advertised and taught in the U.S. since 1962.
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Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby cloudz on Fri May 07, 2021 9:08 am

The answer is yes.

I actually learnt this from master He jing han of taiwan Yin style bagua.
he taught it at a weekend retreat/ seminar up near gloucester uk years ago now.

It was a 'straight line' set. I don't really recall very much it was so long ago.
I think I practiced it a little while only.

I remember him saying that it contained a 'great deal'(see below) and was a bit of a culmination of the art.
important fundamental aspects of the system. a distillation if you will. that's why he liked to teach it to us.
a bit of a shortcut i guess you could say.

it was cool, he's a great teacher and very nice man.
that's about all i've got.

but yea if you want to look further on this, that's the line you may want to look into etc.
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Re: Crab Animal : Yin Style Baguazhang

Postby D_Glenn on Fri May 07, 2021 10:31 am

Here’s a video of a Crab 3 move circle direction change that Xie Peiqi taught me. Xie was officially a student of Men Baozhen but Men and Ma Gui were friends so he sent him to study with Ma Gui. This arrangement actually worked in his benefit because Ma Gui couldn’t seriously injure him like he did his own students so he was actually able to learn a lot of stuff from Ma Gui. The Crab System was one of the things he learned. It was a full system with 8 attacking methods and short forms. It’s not entirely different from the other standard 8 animals, more of an amalgamation of them as Dong Haichuan designed it specifically for Ma Gui since he was literally a dwarf, but still tall in a Han Chinese sense since his parents were of mostly Manchurian descent.
This is all I learned but a lot about the system can be figured out from this. For tall people the attacks are being used on the torso but in Ma Gui’s case, they’re used to attack the person’s lower abdomen, groin and legs.

Last edited by D_Glenn on Fri May 07, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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