the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I think he’s definitely not known outside of a small number of people. I was lucky enough to see a bunch of videos of him practicing empty handed and with some weapons that someone had posted on here. But then someone had messaged the poster and they took them down. I scrambled to find free software to rip the video stream but I was too late. From what I saw he’s got insane skill that rivals my teacher Jinbao’s. It’s a shame that he doesn’t put the proof out there, because he would be taken more seriously, by people who know what they’re seeing.

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D_Glenn wrote:I think he’s definitely not known outside of a small number of people. I was lucky enough to see a bunch of videos of him practicing empty handed and with some weapons that someone had posted on here. But then someone had messaged the poster and they took them down. I scrambled to find free software to rip the video stream but I was too late. From what I saw he’s got insane skill that rivals my teacher Jinbao’s. It’s a shame that he doesn’t put the proof out there, because he would be taken more seriously, by people who know what they’re seeing.

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By what measure do you equate people having insane skills with ?

He himself talks about combative sporting events, using this as a measure of high-level skills which he has not publicly competed in, nor produced any people claiming to use his skill sets to do so?

It would seem that anyone claiming high-level insane skills would match those skills as they did in days of old in publicly competitive events demonstrating them.

If they choose not to do so as some do, are they any better than anyone else claiming such skills ?

It’s just that impression that you get when you can tell that a person has spent thousands of hours moving their whole body in a cohesive manner and where you can tell that their Dantian is the root of all their movements. It looks sort of like a giant well- oiled machine with all sorts interlocking gears and if you got stuck in the gears, they wouldn’t stop turning, you would just get squished.

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Let me start by saying I dismiss Taichi entirely for high level fighting.
Most amateur MMA guys would destroy Grand Masters in a minute or two.

The claim

ok.


So where is the counter example of people using his method of high-level fighting, in amateur MMA level competitions.
Shifu David Chin, “ hop gar “ had a stable of fighters who competed regularly in MMA events and won.
Does that validate his method as being high-level ?

"So where is the counter example of people using his method of high-level fighting, in amateur MMA level competitions."

Just a general thought, but I really have no idea why modern MMA always should be the measurement of high-level fighting. Especially speaking of amateur level competitions.

Would an average amateur level MMA practitioner stand up against a top Thai boxer with Thai boxing rules? No? So how could anyone claim that amateur MMA would automatically be high level fighting?

Always when people are speaking about MMA vs other arts, the comparisons tend to be very strange. Why should everything always be measured by competition MMA standards? Rules and protections so people won't get unecessarily hurt, judges, mats, doctors standing beside the ring, and months for the people to prepare before a fight... So those are the standards of "high level fighting".

If you think nobody is getting hurt in MMA competitions you clearly don't know what your talking about, and anyway Chris Wideman would like to disagree:

Again and as usual you put words in people's mouths that they have never said. Can you actually reply to any comment without acting like a dick?

Seems like you are constantly having pms.

Bao wrote:Again and as usual you put words in people's mouths that they have never said. Can you actually reply to any comment without acting like a dick?

Seems like you are constantly having pms.

Or you could keep going back and editing the bit I took issue with, after I post

"Rules and protections so people won't get hurt, "

One edit later becomes

"Rules and protections so people won't get unecessarily hurt, judges, mats, doctors standing beside the ring, and months for the people to prepare before a fight... So those are the standards of "high level fighting". "

Naughty, naughty Bao.

But your edited post is just as bad. It's a stupid thing to say.

Now, don't get me wrong. I tend to agree with his idea that not everything should be judged by MMA standards. There are lots of reasons to do a martial art, and it doesn't all have to be about competition in a ring, but seriously. People die doing MMA.

I'd recommend listening to JS podcast, from 38.22 recorded after the most recent death in Sumo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1uF1kzu4IU&t=2304s

Risk is inherent in sport. Bike racing and gymnastics are more dangerous than mma; boxing and pro-wrestling have plenty of deaths; US football has far more injuries, short and long term. The risk is part of the attraction. and why some won't consider tennis a sport.

When it comes to tjq, an implied question is "where's the risk"? If there's no risk, then it's not a sport, let alone a combat sport. So, it doesn't make sense to compare it to other combat "sports," or to think it would produce high level sportspeople. Um, this doesn't mean that someone who practices tjq can't reach a level of ability comparable to combat sportsperson (boxing, wrestling, etc). However, that will come from experience/competition with those sportspeople in their context. Apples to apples; sport to sport.

Bao wrote:Why should everything always be measured by competition MMA standards?

Because it's still (despite all the rules and weight categories) the closest and most exposed/publicly-visible venue to vale tudo format, i.e. an "anything goes" fight for money, which tends to, eventually, bring out "high level" fighters. The first couple of UFC events had pretty much vale tudo rules, i.e. almost anything was allowed.

The question to ask is, would a high-level MMA fighter have an incomparably, ridiculously better chances when facing a high-level Thai boxer, compared to a high-level tai chi master facing that same Thai boxer?
We all know the answer to that.

Dmitri wrote:
The question to ask is, would a high-level MMA fighter have an incomparably, ridiculously better chances when facing a high-level Thai boxer, compared to a high-level tai chi master facing that same Thai boxer?
We all know the answer to that.

Not really the issue is it ?

The issue is whether those claiming high-level abilities using his method would fare well in today’s competitive events.

Would they, have they?

Feel free to post examples

Every martial art works great in the rule set it was designed for.
However, outside that environment it's a whole different story.

Muay Thai pros would get crushed in a karate point sparring tournament.
BJJ would get smashed in a Sumo ring.
Boxers would get swiftly thrown off of a rope-less Lei Tai platform.
MMA wouldn't last long in a Tai Chi Push Hands tournament.

JessOBrien wrote:Every martial art works great in the rule set it was designed for.
However, outside that environment it's a whole different story.

Muay Thai pros would get crushed in a karate point sparring tournament.
BJJ would get smashed in a Sumo ring.
Boxers would get swiftly thrown off of a rope-less Lei Tai platform.
MMA wouldn't last long in a Tai Chi Push Hands tournament.

Illustrative of the point

One year, a member of Gracie’s family from Brazil visited the park. Respect was exchanged between the two parties and the agreement on the rules were made. After three short rounds of free style pushing, Gracie went home with dirt on his back.

http://www.wuweitaichi.com/articles/Taipei_Report.htm

In trying to contact the original writer of the report for more information ,
learned of his passing "RIP"

Did interface with the group mentioned.
They were very welcoming,
to all people visiting Peace Park in Taipei, Taiwan.

2-28 Peace Park Taipei, Taiwan 和平公園 (he2 ping2 gong1 yuan2) - Precious' Experience

http://taichitaiwan.blogspot.com/2008/1 ... ping2.html

an old link, of course during this time with the virus and all,
even traveling for non-residence or citizens Taiwan, to Taiwan
it's not so easy.

Visited the group while in Taiwan, a couple of yrs back.
Warm and welcoming, with some able to speak English for non Chinese speakers.

I always likes what Brian Kennedy's (one time emptyflower poster) wife wrote about him in his euology:

"He treasured the idea that either in martial arts, life or spiritual practice, each individual must be
honest and true to themselves and their path. It is your unique path. You walk it, and you set
the pace and direction."