One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby johnwang on Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:56 pm

dspyrido wrote:Shoulder & hip ...

One part moves, all parts move is not always true. When your upper-body and lower-body move into the opposite directions (such as foot sweep), your shoulder and hip act like the "door hinge" and do not move at all.

Here is an example.

Image
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby windwalker on Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:45 pm

Change in position or the progress of the body in a certain direction is called “movement”.
Solidly staying in or preserving its location or orientation is called “stillness”.


All of these correspondences, regardless of how one thing changes into another, are each contained within a circle.

Therefore when movement and stillness become distinct, passive and active then do not occupy the same place and taiji is everywhere.
動之則分、靜之則合、
With movement there is division [into the vectors of the initial force and the diverting force (often called “a thousand pounds” and “four ounces”)].
With stillness there is merging [into the net force of both].


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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby robert on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:57 am

johnwang wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Shoulder & hip ...

One part moves, all parts move is not always true. When your upper-body and lower-body move into the opposite directions (such as foot sweep), your shoulder and hip act like the "door hinge" and do not move at all.

It depends on your understanding, relaxation and awareness. If you take the front facing circle silk reeling that CB is doing above the feet do not move in space. If you are relaxed and your body is connected you should feel the muscles and tendons moving in your feet. One part moves, all parts move refers to the body being connected. Think of a long thin balloon that's not inflated.

Image
If you pick up one end a few inches it wont affect the other end. Inflate the balloon so there is a light stretch throughout.

Image
Now if you pick up one end it affects the other end. All parts of the balloon are connected when it's inflated. That's the idea behind One part moves, all parts move. One part moves, all parts move is not a scientific theorem; it's a maxim meant to convey a concept.

Think of a serpentine belt.

Image
The crankshaft, water pump, a/c, and so on don't move in space, but the belt is moving and parts are rotating, and water gets pumped, electricity is generated and so on. In the body some body parts that are free to move will move in space, but One part moves, all parts move doesn't mean everything is moving in space.
Last edited by robert on Sun Jun 06, 2021 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby johnwang on Sun Jun 06, 2021 10:48 am

If you spin an object, does the center of that object move?
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby robert on Sun Jun 06, 2021 11:44 am

If you rotate a vertebrae it moves. If you rotate a femur it moves. If you rotate a humerus it moves. If a door is on hinges can you open or close the door without moving the hinges? If you weld the two parts of the door hinges together can you open or close the door?
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby dspyrido on Sun Jun 06, 2021 1:50 pm

johnwang wrote:
dspyrido wrote:Shoulder & hip ...

One part moves, all parts move is not always true. When your upper-body and lower-body move into the opposite directions (such as foot sweep), your shoulder and hip act like the "door hinge" and do not move at all.

Here is an example.

Image


The harmonies & alignments are principles to teach a basic to understanding whole body power. Can we ever get more power than whole body? If not then learn the whole body coordinations.

The alignments then get segmented and the techniques get applied as required.

Over time the body can move in segments and then combine when needed ie any of the 7 stars can position & then hit decently hit hard from a short range.


You are right in that some techniques don't need it but can they use the extra coordination?

In the clip you posted the arm and leg coordinate. Why keep the shoulder and hip static? Instead at the end when the balance is taken then why not add the hips and shoulder to give it more power?

But to emphasise the harmonies are there to teach whole body power because most people don't get it. It's not a universal truth that every move must be coordinated this way and as experience grows many movements are divided but might come together for power.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby Kelley Graham on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:26 pm

Yi->Qi->Li implies that all movement starts with a specific kind of thought. This thought establishes expectations as to that movement's purpose or content and includes martial context. It is well established in sports psychology that visualizing the feeling of performing a task results in a kind of muscle activity and better performance. eg 'You must Dwell upon your practice.' If 'proper movement' is the result of the process of change arising from Yi->Qi->Li, and 'expectation' is the key to Yi->Qi->Li, what then is movement? Why even have a principle that establishes physical progress, like "Large obvious movement leads to small hidden movement, which in turn leads to no movement"? What is this no movement? I think to limit movement to what can be perceived on the outside goes against much of what has been passed down. I teach that there is always movement as long as you are alive. Only dead things are motionless.

Applying this to the OP, the part that leads is your Yi. Be careful as to how you manage your expectations of what practice is about. Keep options open or you can train yourself into a corner. Endless plateaus of skill and understanding are all too common. Don't trap yourself.
Last edited by Kelley Graham on Sun Jun 06, 2021 3:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby Giles on Mon Jun 07, 2021 7:21 am

robert wrote:.
....................
One part moves, all parts move is not a scientific theorem; it's a maxim meant to convey a concept.
....................
One part moves, all parts move doesn't mean everything is moving in space.


Good examples ('physical metaphors'), good summary.
You can make circles with one finger as a truly isolated movement (well, isolated outside the forearm) that has no relation to the rest of the body, or you can make the same circles and feel this relating to your feet. That's more than a 'luxury' or a pointless feeling -- engaging the whole body in exactly the same way when you come into contact with another body, and indeed before, will lead to very different processes, body connections and outcomes.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby Taste of Death on Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:32 pm

My thoughts on one part moves, all parts move.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36iPPYN059k
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby GrahamB on Tue Jun 08, 2021 10:22 am

I applaud you making a video to show what you mean. I also really can't believe you think you are qualified to give some advice to Jose Aldo to make him a better striker. No offense, but that's hilarious, and it's also the essence of RSF. If only we could bottle it. What would it smell like?
I could be wrong.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby Steve James on Tue Jun 08, 2021 2:34 pm

Wish I had a video, but when I walk everything is moving in space/time and internally. I'd apply that same concept to a physical punch: i.e., I'm trying to hit the target while I'm moving. (Not that standing still and puching (fa) isn't possible, of course. For me, movement is force multiplier.

Otoh, yin-yang theory says that there must be movement and stillness. John's point, for ex., could be illustrated by a hip toss. I.e., a throw where the thrower is at the center and the throwee is on the outside.

Anyway, I don't think any of these povs are wrong because I think all tjq sayings are metaphors or similes. I also don't accept that this particular metaphor is unique or not applied and applicable to (other) martial arts. Um, that doesn't mean that tjq people, let alone practitioners of other martial arts would agree with each other.:)
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:11 pm

Show me someone standing still who is not moving
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby Taste of Death on Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:06 pm

[/quote]"GrahamB"]I applaud you making a video to show what you mean. I also really can't believe you think you are qualified to give some advice to Jose Aldo to make him a better striker. No offense, but that's hilarious, and it's also the essence of RSF. If only we could bottle it. What would it smell like?[/quote]

I didn't realize Jose Aldo was on this thread. Maybe you would prefer this guy's advice.
https://www.mmafighting.com/2021/5/8/22425772/video-joshua-fabia-punches-and-kicks-upside-down-diego-sanchez-in-bizarre-training-footage

Conor McGregor on over-reaching before the Aldo fight.
"I felt when we stared down, I felt his right hand was twitching, which was a subtle tell for me. He's ready to unload that right hand and I feel that could be a downfall for him. If he lets that right hand go, I will not be there. I simply enter the way I enter and that is it. They either over-extend or they shrink away. Either way, it is not good for them. I will create traps and dead space inside that Octagon. I will walk him into that dead space. All of a sudden he will be in danger."
Last edited by Taste of Death on Wed Jun 09, 2021 2:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby cloudz on Wed Jun 09, 2021 5:57 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Show me someone standing still who is not moving



this made my brain freeze
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Re: One Part Moves, All Parts Move

Postby wayne hansen on Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:18 pm

Basic physics
Don't put power into the form let it naturally arise from the form
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