Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby AL2016 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:13 pm

Some reproach to master cui , master yaocheng guan and ling qing school to incourage a méthode that it s not yichuan ,Closer to boxing or sanda.

It s interesting that people reproach (blâme) their methode not to be yichuan

And they are right .

The answer of the master of lingqing school is : i practice yichuan for 20-30 years with great masters and our group mâke action not blabla and WE prooved yichuan efficiency.

The most important is what is yichuan style ? How Can we Say that you use yichuan in fight?

Yichuan IS a spécial style with main caracteristics :
-special foot step called mocabu
- hooking the oponnent arm to apply fahli ,power with the whole body

WITHOUT HOOKING THERE IS NO YICHUAN

and the lingqing team , master yao and cui 'students don't use YICHUAN STYLE IN TOURNAMENT 'IT S JUST SANDA AND KICK BOXING

When you see free fight in cuiruibin school or yaochenguan school there is no hooking ,no mocabu , no whole body blows.

If you dont know that there is a yichuan practicionner during the fight you would Say

Ok good sanda fight . Nothing spécial and no use even m'y Friends that are french régional thaï boxer champion would eat them in one or two rounds so what use to make yichuan if use kick boxing technics?

it s like you say i make MIKE TYSON training yichuan and he Can proof yichuan efficiency in fight
So Tyson Come train 6 hour zhan zhuang , mocabu , fahli for years and then when fight doesnt change nothing using ENGLSIH BOXING
And you Say

You see how YICHUAN IS wonderful ?

Same with ALEXANDRE KARELIN great wrestler
You Say kareline is training yichuan and he Can proof yichuan efficiency in fight
So kareline Come train 6 hour zhan zhuang , mocabu , fahli for years and then when fight doesnt change nothing using wrestling
And you Say

You see how YICHUAN IS wonderful ?

WE would reply it's not yichuan

And you reply

But they traîned yichuan for years .
Last edited by AL2016 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 3:18 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby johnwang on Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:02 pm

AL2016 wrote:It s interesting that people reproach (blâme) their methode not to be yichuan.

If we look at the following clip, what style does he do? People may say this is not CMA. IMO, this is 100% CMA, It applies the CMA principles such as:

- Lead your opponent into the emptiness (the 2nd jab lead your opponent to block into the thin air).
- Create an opening, and then attack that opening (force your opponent to block to his left, you then attack to his right).
- ...

By using the jab, jab, cross combo, the 1st jab is real. The 2nd jab is fake (pull back 1/2 way). The 2nd jab is used to set up the cross. This principle/strategy can map into many techniques. You use a real attack first, you then use it again as a fake to set up something else.

If we look at MA from the principle/strategy point of view, many different MA systems may use the same principle/strategy. Is this important principle/strategy recorded in any TCMA form. I don't think so. So to use the form training to judge how one system should fight is not realistic.

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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby AL2016 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:42 am

IS it yichuan lineage?

You speak about which one ? The man on right or left?
Last edited by AL2016 on Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:58 am

AL2016 wrote:IS it yichuan lineage?

You speak about which one ? The man on right or left?

IMO, as long as you are using CMA principle/strategy, it's CMA.

AL2016 wrote:WE would reply it's not yichuan.

When a Yi Chuan guy uses CMA principle/strategy, he is fighting like a CMA guy. He doesn't have to fight just like a Yi Chuan guy.
Last edited by johnwang on Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby Taste of Death on Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:44 pm

johnwang wrote:
AL2016 wrote:IS it yichuan lineage?

You speak about which one ? The man on right or left?

IMO, as long as you are using CMA principle/strategy, it's CMA.

AL2016 wrote:WE would reply it's not yichuan.

When a Yi Chuan guy uses CMA principle/strategy, he is fighting like a CMA guy. He doesn't have to fight just like a Yi Chuan guy.


In hanshi yiquan we like to attack the opponent from a 45 degree angle. That means first attacking the lead arm using the method demonstrated at the 4:10 mark of the following video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6V6c4xwwBVI

In the case of your gif, his left hand would slap your right hand while throwing a cross over or under the lead arm, striking it with the bicep. The left hand and right arm should strike simultaneously. Then he sweeps your right arm with his right arm and strikes with his left fist. That way he is outside your range and it is you who is left unprepared to defend the strike.
Last edited by Taste of Death on Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:14 pm

Taste of Death wrote:In the case of your gif, his left hand would slap your right hand while throwing a cross over or under the lead arm,

If my opponent uses left hand to block my right jab, I'll still use the same principle, change my jab into a hook, and let his left hand to block into the thin air.

To lead my opponent into the emptiness is principle/strategy #1. To change a punch into a pull is principle/strategy #2.

My question is when a Yi Chuan guys uses these 2 principle/strategy, does he still fight like a Yi Chuan guy? IMO, he is still fighting like a Yi Chuan guy because he just uses the general CMA principle/strategy instead.

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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby Taste of Death on Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:48 pm

Always strategy #2 but not always strategy #1. Sometimes the emptiness is inside of me. I may lead them there but I don't want them to stay. If they enter I want to close the door, preferably on them. With taiji they let everyone in.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby johnwang on Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:00 pm

Taste of Death wrote:Always strategy #2 but not always strategy #1. Sometimes the emptiness is inside of me. I may lead them there but I don't want them to stay. If they enter I want to close the door, preferably on them. With taiji they let everyone in.

To lead your opponent into the emptiness usually mean you give your opponent plenty of space to fall.

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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby Taste of Death on Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:11 pm

johnwang wrote:
Taste of Death wrote:Always strategy #2 but not always strategy #1. Sometimes the emptiness is inside of me. I may lead them there but I don't want them to stay. If they enter I want to close the door, preferably on them. With taiji they let everyone in.

To lead your opponent into the emptiness usually mean you give your opponent plenty of space to fall.

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Yes, but in yiquan I want them to fall into me before I release them. The emptiness is something I have created inside me. But if they want to fall on the ground I let them.

Your way is like a matador but throwing the bull rather than stabbing it. My way is more like holding a Swiss ball. Like the ball, the space between my arms and torso is also empty but it holds everything I need.
Last edited by Taste of Death on Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yichuan yao lineage : used in sanda is it yichuan?

Postby AL2016 on Sun Jul 11, 2021 11:57 am

Ok thanks
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