Killer fast hands in forms

[windwalker]

Styles, methods are designed around a certain premise.

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

For example, Taiji principle - to use 4 oz to deal with 1000 lb. If I have 1000 lb,
why not just use it?

Why not?

The problem comes in when someone mentions this and can not do it....

If one can really do it,
it's very clear why one would not want to use their "mass" in dealing with others.


What ever one practices, if practiced enough it will be what they do with out thought.
At that point what they do no longer a method, functional or not its them...

[windwalker]

Styles, methods are designed around a certain premise.

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

We used to train repetitions of movement into the thousands.
then go spar, either get beat up, or figure out how to use it
not to get beat up.


Ron Dong, Mike Staples /Crane and Gorilla “ape”
of White Crane style


Not possible to move in any other way other than what was trained.....

[johnwang]

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

Why not?

Can you learn the following from any CMA style?

To use:

1. jab-jab-cross to let your opponent to block into the thin air.
2. jab-hook-uppercut to borrow your opponent's force.
3. right hook, left hook, right uppercut, left uppercut to punch in 3 dimensional,
4. hook, back fist to set up arm wrap.
5, hook, horizontal hammer fist to set up a trap.
6. ...

If you only live within a style, your may never learns any information not in your style.

[windwalker]

Styles, methods are designed around a certain premise.

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

For example, Taiji principle - to use 4 oz to deal with 1000 lb. If I have 1000 lb,
why not just use it?

Why not?

The problem comes in when someone mentions this and can not do it....

If one can really do it,
it's very clear why one would not want to use their "mass" in dealing with others.


What ever one practices, if practiced enough it will be what they do with out thought.
At that point what they do no longer a method, functional or not its them...

helpful to include context

“Why not “

Why not, use 1000 pounds or as much force as needed.
The issue for those who say they can use 4 ounces or less, is whether they can really do it.
Not those who feel they can not.

[origami_itto]

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

Why not?

Can you learn the following from any CMA style?

To use:

1. jab-jab-cross to let your opponent to block into the thin air.
2. jab-hook-uppercut to borrow your opponent's force.
3. right hook, left hook, right uppercut, left uppercut to punch in 3 dimensional,
4. hook, back fist to set up arm wrap.
5, hook, horizontal hammer fist to set up a trap.
6. ...

If you only live within a style, your may never learns any information not in your style.

If you don't read trashy romance novels you may never experience stories not in your genre preference.

You can't be everything to everyone. A style is just a shorthand for a collection of strategies. What's useful is what's usable. Maybe you want a life outside of preparing against bandits. Eventually you have to make choices because everything is a trade off of some sort. Eventually you have to answer the burning question, "What's the point of all this?"

[Bao]

If you don't read trashy romance novels you may never experience stories not in your genre preference.
You can't be everything to everyone. A style is just a shorthand for a collection of strategies. What's useful is what's usable.

Well said.

[marvin8]

This is why I try not to let any "style" to set restriction on me.

Why not?

Can you learn the following from any CMA style?

To use:

1. jab-jab-cross to let your opponent to block into the thin air.
2. jab-hook-uppercut to borrow your opponent's force.
3. right hook, left hook, right uppercut, left uppercut to punch in 3 dimensional,
4. hook, back fist to set up arm wrap.
5, hook, horizontal hammer fist to set up a trap.
6. ...

If you only live within a style, your may never learns any information not in your style.

Yes, boxing, MMA, karate, muay thai, Sambo, etc. Also, jabs and crosses can be found in both Lian Bu Quan (连步拳) and Gong Li Quan (功力拳) (1:09:41, 1:10:02), as well as Eagle Claw (鹰爪派) (0:15, 0:27, 0:30).

Hooks (including check hooks), overhands, uppercuts, spinning back fists, and superman punches are the bread and butter of Cai Li Fo (Choy Li Fut) (蔡李佛).

Tighter, close-range hooks can be found in Zhou Jia (Jow Ga) (周家) and Eagle Claw.

Tan Tui's (弹腿) hooks can also be used as casting punches.

The uppercut is also found in both Lian Bu Quan and Gong Li Quan (1:09:15, 1:10:36).

The last example above involves using the free hand to control the opponent's head. Further examples of dirty boxing can be found in Tan Tui, Yang Style Taiji (杨式太极), and Xingyi (形意).

Hong Jia (Hung Gar) (洪家) has shovel hooks to the ribs, while body hooks with a more horizontal trajectory can be easily adapted from Pi Gua's (劈掛) open hand strikes.

[everything]

Maybe you want a life outside of preparing against bandits. Eventually you have to make choices because everything is a trade off of some sort. Eventually you have to answer the burning question, "What's the point of all this?"

lol there isn't really a practical point. statistically speaking. maybe if you want to be a football hooligan. yet it fascinates everyone here, and everyone needs something like that

[Formosa Neijia]

Yes, boxing, MMA, karate, muay thai, Sambo, etc. Also, jabs and crosses can be found in both Lian Bu Quan (连步拳) and Gong Li Quan (功力拳) (1:09:41, 1:10:02), as well as Eagle Claw (鹰爪派) (0:15, 0:27, 0:30).

Hooks (including check hooks), overhands, uppercuts, spinning back fists, and superman punches are the bread and butter of Cai Li Fo (Choy Li Fut) (蔡李佛).

Tighter, close-range hooks can be found in Zhou Jia (Jow Ga) (周家) and Eagle Claw.

Tan Tui's (弹腿) hooks can also be used as casting punches.

The uppercut is also found in both Lian Bu Quan and Gong Li Quan (1:09:15, 1:10:36).

The last example above involves using the free hand to control the opponent's head. Further examples of dirty boxing can be found in Tan Tui, Yang Style Taiji (杨式太极), and Xingyi (形意).

Hong Jia (Hung Gar) (洪家) has shovel hooks to the ribs, while body hooks with a more horizontal trajectory can be easily adapted from Pi Gua's (劈掛) open hand strikes.

Shoot out for a super informative post. That took a lot of doing, much appreciated. I keep finding myself falling back on my CLF as the moves were fast and applicable right from the beginning. No translation was needed and I think that's one secret to the speed training in fighting-- train the versions that ARE APPLIED, not the ones in the forms. If I throw the uppercut in CLF fashion, I can do it much faster than in the XYQ version of zhuan if I stick to the standard form. Again, this is one reason I think people should seek out other versions of the moves they are doing to expand their base.

[marvin8]

Yes, boxing, MMA, karate, muay thai, Sambo, etc. Also, jabs and crosses can be found in both Lian Bu Quan (连步拳) and Gong Li Quan (功力拳) (1:09:41, 1:10:02), as well as Eagle Claw (鹰爪派) (0:15, 0:27, 0:30).

Hooks (including check hooks), overhands, uppercuts, spinning back fists, and superman punches are the bread and butter of Cai Li Fo (Choy Li Fut) (蔡李佛).

Tighter, close-range hooks can be found in Zhou Jia (Jow Ga) (周家) and Eagle Claw.

Tan Tui's (弹腿) hooks can also be used as casting punches.

The uppercut is also found in both Lian Bu Quan and Gong Li Quan (1:09:15, 1:10:36).

The last example above involves using the free hand to control the opponent's head. Further examples of dirty boxing can be found in Tan Tui, Yang Style Taiji (杨式太极), and Xingyi (形意).

Hong Jia (Hung Gar) (洪家) has shovel hooks to the ribs, while body hooks with a more horizontal trajectory can be easily adapted from Pi Gua's (劈掛) open hand strikes.

Shoot out for a super informative post. That took a lot of doing, much appreciated. I keep finding myself falling back on my CLF as the moves were fast and applicable right from the beginning. No translation was needed and I think that's one secret to the speed training in fighting-- train the versions that ARE APPLIED, not the ones in the forms. If I throw the uppercut in CLF fashion, I can do it much faster than in the XYQ version of zhuan if I stick to the standard form. Again, this is one reason I think people should seek out other versions of the moves they are doing to expand their base.

Actually, I copied and pasted. Credit would have to go to the author Mason Zhong of the Chinese Martial Arts Reformation Society. The article goes over kicks and grappling too, Sanda: Kung Fu created a solution, then threw it away. My RSF thread.

[wayne hansen]

I picked up a book in Manila in 75 called figure 8 arnis
It said all there was to Arnis was in the figure 8
I thought that was too simple
I now know they were right