Qi, fascia, Taijiquan

[Rhen]

https://ojs.bilpublishing.com/index.php ... w/3365/pdf

abstract:
The slow-motion practice of Taijiquan, operationally, cultivates the
cognitive perception of fascia tension as it is being harnessed to discipline
body motion to be in accord with Yin-Yang Balance. The ideal motion that
results, bestows liveliness of change and harmonizes body momentum,
the hallmarks of maneuverability and force potential for performance. The
paper puts forth the proposition that the manifestation of Qi in Taijiquan
is primarily the cognitive perception of fascial tension in the functional
efficacy of bipedal balance for performance. Though the cultivated
cognition may be subjective, the process of Qi nurturing is grounded on
the reduction of the errors of imbalances, which carves a practice path to
balance with tangible effects. The force that arises from body motion so
imbued with Yin-Yang Balance, is of the phenomenon of internal strength
or neijin—consummate, of the right force vector in spontaneous response
and rooted in balance. Taijiquan practice nurtures Qi for both health
wellbeing and neijin as the body's core strength, depending on the practice
efforts put in.

[Bao]

I am not sure about what I think about this one. Some things left unexplained and I am not sure about the conclusions (I mean that I really didn't understand what the conclusion was). If you write an academic article about "qi", you need to define it properly. Where does it say that "qi" generally means "energy". Who claims that qi in Tai Chi means energy? It might be better to discuss fascia from a pure TCM perspective and not mix Tai Chi Chuan theory into the mix. Tai Chi and TCM are not always compatible in theory and in view of "qi".

It would be better with more references to recent research about fascia. And also, "fangsong" is just the modern word for "to relax". If you want to connect to Tai chi specific connotations, you should instead use only "song" and in a tai chi specific manner.

IMO, in the Tai Chi and TCMA world, "fascia" is something overused, overemphasised and overvalued. And obviously not very well understood. Personally, I don't like talking about it at all.

"Tap into the fascia"
- Mark Rasmus

[Rhen]

I agree, fascia is over rated and qi in chinese medicine is not necessarily energy.

In TCM school we never really talked about fascia other than it is like a jacket around the muscle and it can get tight.
5 element theory links various tissue to an organ or element: example heart and blood vessel, Lung and skin, spleen/stomach and muscles, Liver and sinew, Kidney and bones.Fascia could either be spleen or liver related. There is a relationship for example if the need to help the lung and skin we can needle just on surface of skin, if we want to help the bone and kidney we can go deep to the level of the bone, etc. etc.Same with muscle, sinew, and blood vessel.

When we train taijiquan we are training those 5 elements. We know are can train sinew and muscle, but can we really train the fascia? it seems to be more like a biproduct that fascia is getting trained as we stimulate muscles and sinews with chan su jin silk reeling motions of Taijiquan.

Besides jing luo channels, we have another set of channels called the "muscle-sinew channels". There are 12 of them. Massage/Tui-na will help them. They run along the acupuncture jing luo channels, are broader, but they however don't always go with the flow of the jing luo channel. They all travel from the extremities toward the body. From the hands and feet towards the body.

[Doc Stier]

Wow! Overthinking things often creates problems which don't even exist.

Strive to think less and feel more.

[Kelley Graham]

The way I explain fascia to students is really simple. It's everywhere. You can't train or use it directly, so don't try. Most importantly, power that is expressed through full and complete range of motion is critical to breaking up the crosslinking process that occurs as we sleep or are immobile. Students should intentionally seek their maximum range of motion in both hard and soft training approaches.

[suckinlhbf]

Fascia in chinese is 筋膜. Lots of training methods in CMA focus on 筋膜 (fascia). Missing it is like missing a big part in CMA.

[Bao]

Fascia in chinese is 筋膜. Lots of training methods in CMA focus on 筋膜 (fascia). Missing it is like missing a big part in CMA.

How can you miss it? It's everywhere, from coating the bones, wrapping around the organs and out to the most shallow muscles.

Practice what fascia, which is where and how? The fascia in the fingertips by practicing spear finger conditioning?

[wayne hansen]

Like CORE it is just another marketing tool for those that don’t understand the art to fool the public

[suckinlhbf]

Practice what fascia, which is where and how? The fascia in the fingertips by practicing spear finger conditioning?

筋膜 exists everywhere in the body. Most know has to "song". Being "song", we use muscles less. Motions require all body parts to move coordinately. Using less muscular power in the moves (being "song"), the body is forced to use other body parts to step up. Then, 筋膜 will (may) kick in. Some practitioners emphasis on song, song, song, ......., and song. We won't miss not to use 筋膜. We know how to use muscles better. The training is to use 筋膜 better to complement muscles.

[Yeung]

[yeniseri]

https://ojs.bilpublishing.com/index.php/jim/article/view/3365/pdf

abstract:
The slow-motion practice of Taijiquan, operationally, cultivates the
cognitive perception of fascia tension as it is being harnessed to discipline
body motion to be in accord with Yin-Yang Balance. The ideal motion that
results, bestows liveliness of change and harmonizes body momentum,
the hallmarks of maneuverability and force potential for performance. The
paper puts forth the proposition that the manifestation of Qi in Taijiquan
is primarily the cognitive perception of fascial tension in the functional
efficacy of bipedal balance for performance. Though the cultivated
cognition may be subjective, the process of Qi nurturing is grounded on
the reduction of the errors of imbalances, which carves a practice path to
balance with tangible effects. The force that arises from body motion so
imbued with Yin-Yang Balance, is of the phenomenon of internal strength
or neijin—consummate, of the right force vector in spontaneous response
and rooted in balance. Taijiquan practice nurtures Qi for both health
wellbeing and neijin as the body's core strength, depending on the practice
efforts put in.

My perspective as I read this is that this the mechanistic beginning, which happens in "all movement". Muscles, fascia, bones, etc are the default tools within the musculature of the human organism. The other level is the neuroendocrine system and the metering of hormones, signalling transduction of all kinds, nitiric oxide syutheses or lack thereof within meditative slow movemnts with electrolyte accompaniment (sodium, potassium, etc within the chamsujin (silk reeling) with awareness attention, etc that allows for this qi/chi to manifest within the gong of daoyin movement. Impossble to artfully elucide but it has to be experienced.

Any force is negative within meditative movement but silk reeling synthesis within the movement arcs create this pressure differential to clear blockage (generically speaking) while invigorating the internal milieu.

As a terrible teacher of yangsheng technologies, when I teach "taijiquan" or "qigong", it is failed to understand that zhanzhuang, despite being quiet, without adornment and just standing there create its own internal milieu (peristaltic adbomen innervation (I am incapabl of finding the right word so it is ) and one is just doing nothing externally but that posterior stance holding 'energies' goes to where it is needed. Again, difficult to whisper hence experiental stages and depth of effor when everything appears "empty" and useless, and no fancy waving needed to access the wonder of nothingness, as it were.

[everything]

really agree with bao, doc, and wayne. overthinking , then getting confused, doesn't help anyone anywhere. probably harmful.

we can see fascia if we cut up some meat. you can see how it's a "structure"/"web" hodling things. we can feel our own restricting our mobility, and we can try to "remodel" over time for better movement. I'm the first to say "sink qi", but let's just leave "energy" out for once and work on the physical movement abilities. don't get too confused. this person seems a bit lost, and making up a "new hypothesis" is just a "joe schmo" going down the wrong path yet again. smdh.

- it's not that hard to work on your connective tissue. everyone can do it.
- it's not that hard to learn some meditation. everyone can do it.
- it's not that hard to learn basic qigong and feel some "energy". everyone can do it.

sure, IMA integrates those (and MA physical techniques and strength and more), but just do it at a basic level. it seems helpful (especially for beginners) to focus on those three separately for a long time. to get more advanced in just one of those is difficult enough already. making up some stupid theory to conflate one with the other when you don't realize you can't even do them separately well at all .... these people would be better served to go back to square one.

[Doc Stier]

Agreed. The internal aspects of any martial art are generally more easily felt than seen. Thus, if this chi/fascia concept, or any other concept, can be practically incorporated into a personal training regimen in a way which validates it through inner feeling and awareness, it may be of some value to enhanced skill development.

If not, the concept remains only an intellectual hypothesis, which serves merely as fodder for endless debate. This is why I generally favor thinking less and feeling more.

[everything]

"the human brain is the most complicated object in the known universe" according to michio kaku.

it's so complicated, one part of it can make up crazy shit while other part of it completely believes we are experiencing this crazy shit (when dreaming). it's easy to see why, in some ways, people "are too smart for their own good" and make up a bunch of b.s. perhaps these people should learn some meditation instead of sitting around making up new theories. perhaps it's then easier for "the observer" to see the "you" making up a strange train of thought. oh well. don't think they ever will.