Which strategy is better?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby johnwang on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:00 pm

marvin8 wrote:I do not see the "strategy" in the OP, "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it." Can you explain where it is or provide any testing video?

In those clips, they didn't wait for their opponent's attacks. They attack first.

In the following clip, I did try to punch at my opponent's face. but my punches could not go through.

Image

marvin8 wrote:I only see the typical long guard to head control, no "arm wrap:"

Image

After head lock, if you want to follow with a

- punch (such as uppercut), you may not want to wrap your opponent's leading arm.
- throw, you want to wrap his leading arm and pull.

Image
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:11 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:I do not see the "strategy" in the OP, "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it." Can you explain where it is or provide any testing video?

In those clips, they didn't wait for their opponent's attacks. They attack first.

In the following clip, I did try to punch at my opponent's face. but my punches could not go through.

https://i.postimg.cc/8cJkV3Kv/Keegan-double-spears.gif

Right, no "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it:"

johnwang wrote:When I can do

- left hook,
- right hook,
- left arm wrap,

- right head lock,
- left leg step in,
- right leg cut,

Image

to respond to my opponent's jab and cross with speed. I feel I was still in my 30. ;D
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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby johnwang on Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:14 pm

marvin8 wrote:Right, no "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it:"

You can't see my opponent uses double hooks here?

Image
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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:00 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Right, no "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it:"

You can't see my opponent uses double hooks here?

https://i.postimg.cc/8cJkV3Kv/Keegan-double-spears.gif

I can't see your combat hypothesis, "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross" in your "testing videos." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it?"

johnwang wrote:When I can do

- left hook,
- right hook,
- left arm wrap,

- right head lock,
- left leg step in,
- right leg cut,

Image

to respond to my opponent's jab and cross with speed. I feel I was still in my 30. ;D


johnwang wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Okay so what I think is missing in what you post is the testing phase. When have you or your students tested your combat hypotheses against opponents who resist and move realistically and did you get any video?

And no I'm not taking about your well established shuai jiao record and mastery, I mean all the strategies for dealing with boxers that you are sharing.

They train partner drills in class. They go to local MMA gym and Sanda tournament to test their skill. ...
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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby johnwang on Mon Jul 12, 2021 8:14 pm

marvin8 wrote:I can't see your combat hypothesis, "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross" in your "testing videos." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it?"

I don't have testing video. I only have training video.

Again, if I try to punch my opponent's head, but his double hooks prevent my jab-cross from going through, that's testing video IMO.

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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby marvin8 on Mon Jul 12, 2021 10:49 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:I can't see your combat hypothesis, "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross" in your "testing videos." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it?"

I don't have testing video. I only have training video.

Again, if I try to punch my opponent's head, but his double hooks prevent my jab-cross from going through, that's testing video IMO.

https://i.postimg.cc/8cJkV3Kv/Keegan-double-spears.gif

Again, that does not show "left arm wrap, right head lock, left leg step in, right leg cut." Can you provide a training (or testing) video with more realistic (e.g., punching rhythm, distance, movement, etc.) punches, like in strategy 1, that shows your combat hypothesis, "left hook (punch the jab), right hook (punch the cross), left arm wrap, right head lock, left leg step in, right leg cut?"

marvin8 wrote:
johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Right, no "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it:"

You can't see my opponent uses double hooks here?

https://i.postimg.cc/8cJkV3Kv/Keegan-double-spears.gif

I can't see your combat hypothesis, "left hook, right hook to counter jab/cross" in your "testing videos." Again, can you provide any testing video showing the OP "A throws jab/cross. B uses double hooks to counter it?"

johnwang wrote:When I can do

- left hook,
- right hook,
- left arm wrap,

- right head lock,
- left leg step in,
- right leg cut,

Image

to respond to my opponent's jab and cross with speed. I feel I was still in my 30. ;D


Your testing or training (with realistic punches) videos do not show "left hook (punch the jab), right hook (punch the cross), left arm wrap, right head lock, left leg step in, right leg cut."

Again, there is not much difference between your testing videos and the typical long guard to head control. The timing is the same:

Image
Image
Image
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Re: Which strategy is better?

Postby DeusTrismegistus on Mon Jul 19, 2021 5:26 pm

Outside to inside blocks work just fine for defending a jab cross. What is going to determine whether you use the outside to inside double hook or a different technique is your training, your distance, your positioning, your movement, your timing, and your style. Some fighters like to leave the center open to invite attacks and counter, others like to guard the center.
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