Taiji Resonance

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby marvin8 on Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:06 am

johnwang wrote:To stick, listen, yield, follow is one approach. To shake your opponent and interrupt his movement is another approach.

When your opponent swings

- toward you, if you give him a push,
- away from you, if you give him a pull,

you can interrupt that swing.

I don't understand why IMA does not address this method - "shaking".

Why do you want to shake your opponent? You don't want him to generate speed and power during the initial stage. When you throw a right punch at me, if I can push on your right shoulder, even 4 oz force can stop your punch.
johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:A: Can you post clip(s) of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder," either demo or training, if not fighting (which I never asked for)? You already posted some testing/fighting videos.

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Thanks. The direction of Chang's throw (forwards/uchi mata) contradicts your throw (backwards/front cut), even though both feeders' position are the same. Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

Both yours and Chang's head control (interrupt) and throws are started in the end stage, not "initial stage." In the end stage, your opponent can counter (e.g., asking hand, punch you in the nose, counter front cut with front cut, etc). Which interrupt timing is better?

Examples of interrupt in the "initial stage." Push (or hit) and don't get pushed (or hit):

At :53, Ian, "You want to push me the way that I'm not resisting. Just like if you throw a punch at me, I don't want to focus on the punch. If you throw a punch, I focus on where the punch isn't and find the easiest way into your center."



At :50, Sifu Tong, "You go forward...too late! Then, you get me. However, here right away. ...Once I...I already go. Otherwise, [gestures: you punch me in the nose]."

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Daniel Cormier pushes Ariel Helwani:

Image

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johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Do you have a clip of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder?

A: Do you have a clip of ...?
B: I have over 1000 clips on my computer.
A: But those clips are demo/training clip. Those are not fighting clip.
B: :'(

A: Do you have a clip of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder, then throwing?"
B: I have over 1000 clips on my computer.
A: Can you post a "realistic" clip of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder, then throwing," where the feeder retracts his punch?
B: No, it's training. "My opponent has to be compliant." If training partner retracts their punch, it will be too fast to train blocking punches and throwing.
A: But in your blocking, training videos, you retract your punches. Why can't you do the same in your blocking and throwing training videos? If you can't train blocking and throwing without freezing your punches, then how can you do it in a real fight? Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?
B: :'(
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:38 pm

- The direction of Chang's throw (forwards/uchi mata) contradicts your throw (backwards/front cut), even though both feeders' position are the same. Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

GM Chang like to wait for his opponent's attack, he then counters it. I like to attack first. When my opponent counters, I then change.

- Both yours and Chang's head control (interrupt) and throws are started in the end stage, not "initial stage." In the end stage, your opponent can counter (e.g., asking hand, punch you in the nose, counter front cut with front cut, etc). Which interrupt timing is better?

If you use arms to control your opponent's arms, you don't have extra arm to control his head. The moment that you control your opponent's head, the moment that one of his arm is free. This is why the head lock and body throw should be executed at the same time - end stage.

- A: But in your blocking, training videos, you retract your punches. Why can't you do the same in your blocking and throwing training videos? If you can't train blocking and throwing without freezing your punches, then how can you do it in a real fight? Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?

A: If I pull back my punch fast, there is no way that you can wrap my arm.
B: In that case, I won't wrap your arm, I just kick your groin. MA is to use the right key to open the right lock. You give me a different lock, I need to use a different key to open it.
Last edited by johnwang on Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm still allergic to "push".
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby marvin8 on Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:56 pm

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:The direction of Chang's throw (forwards/uchi mata) contradicts your throw (backwards/front cut), even though both feeders' position are the same. Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

GM Chang like to wait for his opponent's attack, he then counters it. I like to attack first. When my opponent counters, I then change.

How are the feeders' position in your training videos (end stage) different from GM Chang's, "when attacking?" Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

Image Image Image

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:Both yours and Chang's head control (interrupt) and throws are started in the end stage, not "initial stage." In the end stage, your opponent can counter (e.g., asking hand, punch you in the nose, counter front cut with front cut, etc). Which interrupt timing is better?

If you use arms to control your opponent's arms, you don't have extra arm to control his head.

That is why one should focus on controlling the center (e.g., head control) in the "initial stage," not the "arms:"

marvin8 wrote:At :53, Ian, "You want to push me the way that I'm not resisting. Just like if you throw a punch at me, I don't want to focus on the punch. If you throw a punch, I focus on where the punch isn't and find the easiest way into your center."

https://youtu.be/FAgktLpQsfE

At :50, Sifu Tong, "You go forward...too late! Then, you get me. However, here right away. ...Once I...I already go. Otherwise, [gestures: you punch me in the nose]."

https://imgur.com/nG47rEe.gif ...


johnwang wrote:The moment that you control your opponent's head, the moment that one of his arm is free. This is why the head lock and body throw should be executed at the same time - end stage.

I gave "Examples of interrupt (the center) in the "initial stage." Also, your students in your testing videos and Daniel Cormier got head control in the initial stage. They did not wait to "control the opponent's arms" in the end stage, where they can be countered.

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:A: But in your blocking, training videos, you retract your punches. Why can't you do the same in your blocking and throwing training videos? If you can't train blocking and throwing without freezing your punches, then how can you do it in a real fight? Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?

A: If I pull back my punch fast, there is no way that you can wrap my arm.
B: In that case, I won't wrap your arm, I just kick your groin. MA is to use the right key to open the right lock. You give me a different lock, I need to use a different key to open it.

Can you answer the questions I asked?

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:A: But in your blocking, training videos, you retract your punches. Why can't you do the same in your blocking and throwing training videos? If you can't train blocking and throwing without freezing your punches, then how can you do it in a real fight? Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby johnwang on Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:33 pm

1. How are the feeders' position in your training videos (end stage) different from GM Chang's, "when attacking?" Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

If your opponent is static, you can throw him any direction you want to.

2. Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?

In the following clip, as long as A's right arm can lock on B's head, A can grab his left hand on his own right wrist. The arm wrap is not needed there.

To wrap your opponent's leading arm is to take his counter away. It's not needed if you can take him down fast.

Image
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby marvin8 on Tue Aug 24, 2021 8:49 pm

johnwang wrote:1. How are the feeders' position in your training videos (end stage) different from GM Chang's, "when attacking?" Which throw direction is better (e.g., not force against force)?

If your opponent is static, you can throw him any direction you want to.

If your opponent is static, they can counter you and are harder to throw. That's a reason to start control in the "initial stage."

johnwang wrote:
marvin8 wrote:2. Wouldn't it be easier to try retracting punches in training and test to see if it works, rather than hypothesizing?

In the following clip, as long as A's right arm can lock on B's head, A can grab his left hand on his own right wrist. The arm wrap is not needed there.

To wrap your opponent's leading arm is to take his counter away. It's not needed if you can take him down fast.

Image

B will not freeze their arm, as in your blocking and throwing clips. B will retract their probing jab (asking hand), yield and punch you in the face (or kick you in the groin, etc.), as you extend and open your arms or hop step. Also, most strikers will throw a left jab, not right.

For Example — A (Rousey) tries to enter clinch. B (Nunes) yields and punches A in the face ending the fight:

Rousey’s favorite clinch entry is the jab hanger. She’ll enter with her face straight up in the air and jab in, waiting for her opponent to throw the right hand. The right falls on her shoulder and she uses the space created to wrap her opponent’s head.

Nunes came prepared to deal with this. During one of the first exchanges, Rousey “caught” Nunes’ right on her shoulder, but Nunes followed up with a jab, re-aligning her hips and providing a crossface to frame out of the clinch.

Image

The finish came as a desperate Rousey grabbed onto a collar tie, but Nunes framed with both hands and hop-stepped out to a 45-degree angle. Rousey’s momentum continued taking her forward and she couldn’t turn to face Nunes before eating a three-punch volley that she didn’t see coming. Nunes then swarmed a wobbly Rousey for the finish.

Image
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby yeniseri on Mon Aug 30, 2021 2:31 pm

I don't see relevance of taiji resonance within the framework of tuishou (rolling hands/push hands, etc) but I do have some experience in the yangsheng element of movement fitness performance in the playing of the form that allows
for a more stable autonomic nervous system expression that mediates the heart-lung continnuum in mitigating cardiovascular disease and potential chronic inflammatory conditions.

The low intensity, low frequency of taijiquan (over time: gong) ups the system to operate more efficiently and as that range increases, it allows for less load on the heart and along with that, it decreses the load of other body systems i.e. lungs have to work harder along with kidneys, stomach and perhaps urinary system. Decreasing the "load" on the heart affects the trickling down power of other systems (based on age, degree of health, family history of disease, etc)

Increased first and second pulse harmonics in Tai Chi Chuan practitioners
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4774128/

SECRET OF NO SECRET:
Lowereing the pulse from 80-90 to 60-65 allows for better functioning of the organism when practiced assiduously over time
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