Taiji Resonance

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby johnwang on Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:14 pm

marvin8 wrote:A: Can you post clip(s) of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder," either demo or training, if not fighting (which I never asked for)? You already posted some testing/fighting videos.

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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Steve James on Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:14 pm

A: Do you have a clip of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder?"


Actually, "jamming" can work. Though, will it work against Tyson Fury?

Anyway, here's an ex. of jamming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bE4FPCWqos
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby robert on Sun Aug 08, 2021 2:09 pm

Steve James wrote:Anyway, the thread is about resonance, and how it applies to tjq. Earlier, it was pointed out that "resonance" depends on frequency. So, "shaking" (or vibration, oscillation) could apply. Even a single "on/off" cycle would count. But, I think that's cheating. Any one/two (movement) could be considered a shake.

I liked the example of the swing in the OP and I think a swing is an example of resonance, but resonance invokes ideas of periodicity and frequency that I don't think are applicable to taiji. Taiji is just adding force in the direction it is already moving, at least the part about 4 oz moving a thousand pounds. I tend to agree with the idea that a one/two (movement) executed quickly could be considered a shake. A slow one/two movement isn't a shake.

Steve James wrote:I brought up the Chen style fajing because some might describe it as shaking. If so, how many times does the body generally vibrate.

Chen Yanlin (YCF student) classifies shaking as a type of fajin so I think it applies to all 5 family styles of taiji. If you are hitting heavy bags or pads the body doesn't vibrate.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby dspyrido on Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:37 pm

Steve James wrote:
A: Do you have a clip of "stopping a right punch by pushing on right shoulder?"


Actually, "jamming" can work. Though, will it work against Tyson Fury?

Anyway, here's an ex. of jamming.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bE4FPCWqos


Of course it will!



Btw it happens in boxing. I can't be arsed trying to make clippies but the idea of jamming/pinning/control/trapping/swiping etc etc gets used by a lot of great boxers.
Last edited by dspyrido on Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby dspyrido on Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:55 pm

These shaky stories are just fajin applied. It just takes a "shake" to snap a levered joint especially if that shake uses the body mass in a coordinated fashion.

If that shaking is intense enough and the grabber from behind is not locked tightly & lifting off the ground then the shake can break the grip. Add a rear headbut, hip blasting etc it can hurt nicely. Is resonance a term needed in this application?

As for resonance and the classics - call it qi. Everyone can then feel great.

Now take whatever you (as in anyone here) think is resonance & find a sparring partner from a good fight gym & let us know how this goes.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby wayne hansen on Sun Aug 08, 2021 5:29 pm

When I think of shaking I think of cold shaking energy
It is a special method to develop abrupt energy
Used mainly in striking like one inch punch
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Doc Stier on Mon Aug 09, 2021 9:23 am

Getting back to the OP.....

Resonance is defined as "the condition in which an object or system is subjected to an oscillating force having a frequency close to its own natural frequency." It's a bit of a stretch, imo, to realistically correlate that with either TCC solo form and drill practices or with TCC partner practices.

Other definitions of 'resonance' describe the audio dynamics of "sound reverberated off of a solid surface", which is equally difficult to associate with any type of TCC training in a way that would enhance training results. :-\
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Trip on Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:55 pm

Sure :)
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bill on Mon Aug 09, 2021 1:59 pm

Does TCC have shout or Kiai training?
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bao on Mon Aug 09, 2021 3:52 pm

Bill wrote:Does TCC have shout or Kiai training?


"Heng" and "Ha" are recorded and mentioned in texts. Probably derived directly from Xingyi to Chen boxing as people in the Chen village studied Xingyi as well. Not many Tai Chi schools today practice it though. Some Tai chi schools practice "qigong" 6 sounds.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bill on Mon Aug 09, 2021 4:07 pm

Would that count as using audio dynamics to enhance training results?
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby dspyrido on Tue Aug 10, 2021 6:00 pm

Xing yi tends to have lowered the interest of these sounds. They exist but not as common & appear to have been dropped from some schools or focused into qigung methods.

OTOH XYLH actively trains the "sound of thunder".

There are slight variations depending on who is showing them. Some are targeted to help open up the lungs/torso, boost the qi or augment power projection. The "sound of thunder" is often talked about which can be used to startle (which it does) or knock out (if the old texts are to be believed).
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Kelley Graham on Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:13 am

heng and ha training is very important, critical even, but only at a certain stage. timing is important. too early and the student can injure themselves. too late and what the effect means is unclear. as for resonance, heng-ha, or any breathing method for that matter, only indirectly addresses the intrinsic resonance(s) of the body. i'm not talking about shaking the muscles or skeleton. 5 elements theory and neigong might be the beginning of such inquiry. standing meditation is next. then emptiness. at least that's the way i approach and teach this deep and subtle topic.
Last edited by Kelley Graham on Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bhassler on Wed Aug 11, 2021 12:30 pm

Bao wrote:Probably derived directly from Xingyi to Chen boxing as people in the Chen village studied Xingyi as well.


Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bao on Wed Aug 11, 2021 2:50 pm

Bhassler wrote:Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.


Cheng Wanting had nothing to do with Taijiquan, i.e. did not invent it.

Xingyi manuals/texts were used in the Chenjiagou. Don't think they had anything about Xinyi.
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