Taiji Resonance

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bhassler on Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:25 pm

Bao wrote:
Bhassler wrote:Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.


Cheng Wanting had nothing to do with Taijiquan, i.e. did not invent it.

Xingyi manuals/texts were used in the Chenjiagou. Don't think they had anything about Xinyi.


Ah, we're talking about that particular reboot of taiji "history". Is there a reference to the xingyi manuals in question, or is it more hearsay?

The only way there could be more origin stories about taiji is if they were Batman movies. (Don't be mad, people, I like Batman!)
Last edited by Bhassler on Wed Aug 11, 2021 5:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby oragami_itto on Wed Aug 11, 2021 6:23 pm

Bhassler wrote:
Bao wrote:
Bhassler wrote:Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.


Cheng Wanting had nothing to do with Taijiquan, i.e. did not invent it.

Xingyi manuals/texts were used in the Chenjiagou. Don't think they had anything about Xinyi.


Ah, we're talking about that particular reboot of taiji "history". Is there a reference to the xingyi manuals in question, or is it more hearsay?

The only way there could be more origin stories about taiji is if they were Batman movies. (Don't be mad, people, I like Batman!)


Well dammit now I'm going to think of all these Taijiquan styles as fandoms.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bao on Thu Aug 12, 2021 2:46 am

Bhassler wrote:
Bao wrote:
Bhassler wrote:Where does this theory come from? The founder of Xinyi, which is the predecessor of Xingyi, was contemporary with Chen Wangting.


Cheng Wanting had nothing to do with Taijiquan, i.e. did not invent it.

Xingyi manuals/texts were used in the Chenjiagou. Don't think they had anything about Xinyi.


Ah, we're talking about that particular reboot of taiji "history". ... The only way there could be more origin stories about taiji is if they were Batman movies. (Don't be mad, people, I like Batman!)


I don’t understand what you mean with re-boot. I am only stating my own beliefs. Just because most people believe in something, as in a certain political agenda, it doesn’t mean that is true. There’s only one history and people who has either interpreted the history or made up stories. I always try to go back as far as possible to track and read original sources. And then I make up my own mind regardless what other people think. I use the same method for everything. Religious ideas, history or political propaganda campaigns, I do the same. If you go to the report where Adrian Zenz invents the ”1 million” figure of Uighurs being forced into ”concentration camps”, that all media keeps on repeating nowadays, he writes about that the Uighur population has decreased. But if you examine his own figures and statistics (which he has got from Chinese sources), you can see that actually proves that the population has increased. So listening to someone, or repeating what others say, is different from examining something and understanding it.

When Tang Hao wanted to research the history of Tai Chi, he had an agenda to prove that it originated in Chen Village. I have written about this before: In the Chen Family Manual (Chen Si Jia Pu), he found a note that Chen Wangting created something called Chen Quan, or Chen Boxing. This was Tang Hao's most important proof that Chen Wangting had invented Tai chi. But this note was actually added recently by Chen Xin. Chen Xin however actually never thought that Chen Wangting should have created Taijiquan. Instead, he believed that a person named Chen Pu should be regarded as the first Chen family member who learned and taught Taijiquan. So what Chen Xin meant by Chen Quan, or Chen boxing, was not Taijiquan, it was something else. In the Chen village today, many people still believe in Chen Pu and still do not believe in the Chen Wangting story. The Tang Hao invention of Chen Wangting has nothing to do with their own tradition, not written or anything verbally transmitted.

There are plenty of sources and things written about these things, as notes from early interviews with Chen Xin that are confirmed by different independent sources. Search, read and think by yourself.

Is there a reference to the xingyi manuals in question, or is it more hearsay?


I know that there are references to Xingyi books and texts in early published Chen material. From my own research, it seems logical that they brought it from Xingyi. But Heng Ha are also in other styles as Baji, that was also practiced by Chen practitioners. So I am not exactly sure. Heng Ha could be even older as well, as from old general "neijiaquan." Sal Calzoniere has made research on the manuals used in the Chen village, it would be interesting to hear what he has to say about this. But I have a feeling that he would agree.
Last edited by Bao on Thu Aug 12, 2021 3:02 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby robert on Thu Aug 12, 2021 10:22 am

Bhassler wrote:Is there a reference to the xingyi manuals in question, or is it more hearsay?

I don't know know what Bao is referring to, but there is a top ten list that is shared between xingyi and taiji. Chen taiji attributes it to Chen Changxing and xingyi attributes it to Yue Fei. The ideas are fairly general and I don't find any material in them that suggests one art over the other. The first seven seem like general daoyin concepts and the last three general martial arts concepts.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... yle-taiji/

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... i-jianqiu/
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby cloudz on Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:57 pm

Yea it’s a bit high brow for my taste.
A good bitch slap will definitely carry some ‘resonance’ into your head
Other than that I fail to see how that kind of stuff spoken in the OP will advance anyone’s tcc
More practice less waffle is the way!
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Aug 13, 2021 12:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Trip on Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:28 pm

Why does everybody like to talk so much shit?
Admittedly, I get an amused chuckle out of it :D but...okay

Anyway
My post were about Taiji Listening & Timing

And a cool story about how I used a playground swing to bring understanding to someone who had trouble with timing since they were a kid.

And I thought...Hey, maybe the swing idea might help others
Help someone who struggled with timing too.
(all it required was a tiny understanding of swings)

My bad
I'll never do it again

Anyway others wanted to talk about other stuff
so I "Listened" and
deleted my Timing Listening posts
Last edited by Trip on Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Aug 13, 2021 7:49 pm

Trip wrote:Why does everybody like to talk so much shit?
Admittedly, I get an amused chuckle out of it :D but...okay

Anyway
My post were about Taiji Listening & Timing

And a cool story about how I used a playground swing to bring understanding to someone who had trouble with timing since they were a kid.

And I thought...Hey, maybe the swing idea might help others
Help someone who struggled with timing too.
(all it required was a tiny understanding of swings)

My bad
I'll never do it again

Anyway others wanted to talk about other stuff
so I "Listened" and
deleted my Timing Listening posts


Naw man, c'mon. Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.

I enjoyed what you had to say and the discussion it inspired. Don't let the haters yuk your yum.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Aug 13, 2021 8:52 pm

wayne hansen wrote:The first post was one of the best things I have read on this forum
Delete the rest
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Trip on Fri Aug 13, 2021 9:58 pm

@ oragami_itto
Good point -
Fully understood & grasped
Thumbs up to you :)

But, also, Far from grinded down
I was just "saying" cause of the post above it.

P.S. "yuk your yum" :D
I might use that as mine somewhere

...

@ Mr. Wayne Hansen
like I said before, you're an "Honest Breath of Fresh Air"

Always appreciate your perspective on Taiji
Even when I don't totally agree
I usually see why you took that point of view :)
Last edited by Trip on Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bhassler on Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:24 pm

Bao wrote:I don’t understand what you mean with re-boot.


It's meant to be silly, not derogatory. So many people come up with their own theory, which is great, but then go on to extrapolate and build upon that and present it as if it's something exciting, new, or factual. It just reminds me of movie reboots, with (ahem) clever hooks and twists to justify re-making the same movie (mostly Batman movies) again and again. None of it really affects the quality of an individuals practice, or changes whether or not they're getting what they want out of it, so there's no reason to take it too seriously. Which doesn't mean it doesn't get annoying when people start pushing their own views/personal agendas aggressively (or passive-aggressively), it just means it's the internet, so...
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Bao on Thu Aug 19, 2021 3:37 pm

Ok, fair point. Thanks.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby cloudz on Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:12 am

I just think it's symptomatic of where TCC stands as a martial art and how it's been dragged down to where it sits and languishes.
Trying to care for something can sometimes lead to offence unfortunately.
While it's not personal or meant as mean, giving an honest opinion can be problematic and tread on some toes.

Behind the blunt and somewhat tongue in cheek post I made, I feel there's a valid criticism in there. Some will see it some won't; but basically much of the time the focus is not where it should be..

So, to make up for it I'm writing an article: 5 ways QM will improve your tai chi !

-----

It's called banter folks HTFU
sheesh
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Aug 20, 2021 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Trip on Fri Aug 20, 2021 2:45 pm

cloudz wrote:While it's not personal or meant as mean, giving an honest opinion can be problematic and tread on some toes.


In the same spirit of “not personal or mean

I don’t think your post had that kind of impact where you stepped on any toes.
Like I said, “I get an amusing chuckle” from your shit talking. :)

I like your honesty. I don’t have to guess who you are.

I just think it's symptomatic of where TCC stands as a martial art and how it's been dragged down to where it sits and languishes.
Trying to care for something can sometimes lead to offence unfortunately.
So, to make up for it I'm writing an article: 5 ways QM will improve your tai chi !


You seem to imply you think you’re a "protector" of Taiji
Well, let us review

1. Your post here have been completely off the topic of Taiji Listening's relationship to its Timing
2. You insult others who have not insulted you.

Sheesh, Fantastic! You are off to a heroic start.

Can’t wait for your next post on Taiji.
I’m sure it will further illuminate & lift the Taiji community to new insights on Taiji Listening & Timing.
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby cloudz on Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:26 am

you can't protect something you have no control over..
as i think i suggested, this is about sharing opinions.

have fun
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Re: Taiji Resonance

Postby Trip on Sat Aug 21, 2021 5:11 am

cloudz wrote:...this is about sharing opinions.
have fun


I hear you
Very cool!
Thumbs up to you George :)
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