3 moves combo

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

3 moves combo

Postby johnwang on Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:05 pm

Not much application discussion in RSF lately. I'll try to start one and see how far it may go.

Many years ago, I had a CMA magazine from Hong Kong "New Martial Hero (新武侠)". In that magazine, there was a section called "3 moves combo (三招了)". Different writers shared their personal MA skill. One of the 3 moves combo was described as:

1. Block - A throws a right leading punch at B. B blocks with his right back arm.
2. Jab - B punches back with left leading arm toward A's chest.
3. Cross - A drops right leading arm to block B's left punch, B then throws right back punch toward A's face.

I like this combo that I can use a jab to force my opponent to block it. I then throw anther cross toward the opening that I have just created (when my opponent drops his arm to block my punch). It's a simple but important principle - create an opening, attack the opening.

I was young back then. But I had learned a lot from that section. May be we can start to share our favor combo (3 moves, 4 moves, 5 moves, ...).

Anybody like to share your favor combo here?
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby oragami_itto on Thu Oct 07, 2021 2:29 pm

So my favorite is less a combo, more of an entering.

Squaring up, both fists up in front, move forward then step left while moving my hands to the right as if to strike.

They respond to the hands while I step into a hip throw setup and then bring my arms across their chest to finish the throw.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby Ian C. Kuzushi on Thu Oct 07, 2021 3:48 pm

Go high then low.

Or, just finish it. Thunderbolt with knee to pelvis landing.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby wayne hansen on Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:38 pm

Your opponent decides your combinations anything else is not internal arts
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby Doc Stier on Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:27 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Your opponent decides your combinations ...

Agreed. Enter to establish contact, trap or redirect, and counterstrike in response to any attack. The techniques used to do so will vary according to the attack and my spontaneous response.
Last edited by Doc Stier on Fri Oct 08, 2021 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby yeniseri on Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:47 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Your opponent decides your combinations anything else is not internal arts


That has never been my experience but again I always avoided most fistacuffs.
My experience comes from TKD 2 step sparring but it was eith 1 step or 3-4/5 steps based on experience of both myself and the other.
Since my shuaijiao days of yore (with Zhang Dungsheng) I learned to block/punch at the same time (a 1 vs a 1 and 2 contact) then attempt to spin and throw the opponent.
1. When the other punched with right hand, I would block/punch with left hand and right then slide right hand to encircle neck.
2. Other times (opportunity) use the same block but raise wings (hands and issue right elbow (Chen style elbow-reference) to head/neck to 'stun opponent" step on his toe and push down to side , perhaps push back depending on balance.

I always tried to avoid contact whenever possible because there are some mean bastards out there and they pull guns just because you look at them the wrong way.. Again, I avoid trouble at all costs due to how individuals process conflict and depending where I am in their field of vision.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby johnwang on Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:05 pm

wayne hansen wrote:Your opponent decides your combinations anything else is not internal arts

When you throw a groin kick, if your opponent raises his knee to block it while still has his arms to guard his head, of course you will not throw a face punch after your groin kick.

But why this has anything to do with "internal" or external?
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby wayne hansen on Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:02 am

Because I don’t practice external arts I only talk about the internal
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby Quigga on Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:50 am

If I was being attacked, I'd rather block/cut/redirect their intention to harm me and the intention-wish in which they choose to move. When I was sparring this ended in both of us not moving much at all because something might happen - it was a threat - I know you, you don't know me.

Intention has a form or shape but only very slight substance making it difficult to perceive. The easier and better you feel yourself, the easier it's to feel the other (less resistance).

Drilling a 1-2-3 maybe 4 combo is 'easier' or rather different. You launch yourself at the other guy and hope for the best. Ofc while using your eyes, set ups, angles, footwork, noticing patterns in the opponent,...

The more internal approach is: I don't know what you want to do yet, but as soon as you feel you have a plan to act, I know it. This can lead to very efficient trapping. It also makes the 'enemy' responsible for what's about to happen - input and then equal output. You don't force your will on the other, you just let it happen. It's more relaxed and natural. Note that it takes substantial amounts of jibengong and transcending fear of harm. The person's heart decides how the response will look like - more flowing, more drilling or turning, more crushing - in addition to the body method that was trained the most.

The more external is opposite: I try to force my will / combination on you. I may be afraid and fire my bullet when I see the proper opening because I don't know what may come. I resist the fact you want to hurt me right now and may possibly die. My feeling tools (not eyes) are blocked because I'm dealing more with me than with you.

Often both ways mix together, especially when you go more and more pro in sports. I've seen close quarter combat from Germany's KSK (special military force) on YouTube (I'm insider, yeahhh..) that I found rather embarrassing.

I haven't seen pure internal way of training yet that leads to quick fighting ability. Yet I feel it's possible. External gives you tools and says: Learn how to use them! Internal makes you the tool. IMO
Last edited by Quigga on Fri Oct 08, 2021 6:54 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby Bhassler on Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:41 pm

1. Stomp the groin.
2. Restomp the groin.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby johnwang on Fri Oct 08, 2021 12:47 pm

Quigga wrote:The more internal approach is: I don't know what you want to do yet, but as soon as you feel you have a plan to act, I know it. This can lead to very efficient trapping.

When you throw a jab, you sense that your opponent tries to block it, you pull your jab back half way, and throw your cross toward the opening that your opponent just creates.

I don't believe this has anything to do with "internal" or external. Boxers do this all the time.
Last edited by johnwang on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:14 pm

johnwang wrote:
Quigga wrote:The more internal approach is: I don't know what you want to do yet, but as soon as you feel you have a plan to act, I know it. This can lead to very efficient trapping.

When you throw a jab, you sense that your opponent tries to block it, you pull your jab back half way, and throw your cross toward the opening that your opponent just creates.

I don't believe this has anything to do with "internal" or external. Boxers do this all the time.


I agree that it isn't unique to "internal", whatever that is, I don't claim to know.

I believe CMA in general contains the "moving last but arriving first".

There is a bit of wishful thinking in extravagant combos, though. The likelihood of each successive movement being incorrect increases logarithmically.

Besides, why do you need more than one movement? ;D

Bhassler wrote:1. Stomp the groin.
2. Restomp the groin.

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Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby johnwang on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:19 pm

oragami_itto wrote:Besides, why do you need more than one movement? ;D

You knock on the door, you then wait for your opponent to open the door, you then enter.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby oragami_itto on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:26 pm

johnwang wrote:
oragami_itto wrote:Besides, why do you need more than one movement? ;D

You knock on the door, you then wait for your opponent to open the door, you then enter.


This reminds me of a move Jet Li demonstrates in a few films, the final fight in Fist Of Legend and Kiss Of The Dragon.

He throws his left hand out to the side with his fingers wide and when they react he comes in with the right hand.

I know it's a movie and all, but it does work against my dog 75% of the time.

And as to internal or not, the Yang family classics mention feinting explicitly.

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Last edited by oragami_itto on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 3 moves combo

Postby Quigga on Fri Oct 08, 2021 1:33 pm

You let them knock on the door in your mind-spirit, see how they behave, then either invite them for tea or throw them out according to their behaviour.

IMO it makes no sense to talk about IMA without meditation, prayer, intent, qi, mind-spirit-soul, jing, stuff that's bigger and beyond the mere physical body. If you reduce it to the physical you'll never get it. That's wishful thinking. Again, IMO; everyone prefers their brew differently.
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