What are your goals?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

What are your goals?

Postby origami_itto on Mon Dec 13, 2021 9:54 pm

Formosa Neijia made an interesting observation in the doctor Yang thread that we didn't have the same goals in our training.

Fair point, but it's got me wondering what goals practitioners have for their practice.

Personally, first and foremost I train to increase the quality and duration of my life. I want to spend as much time as possible with my beautiful daughters and taijiquan seems to be, by all scientific measures, a great way to approach that goal. Particularly as I age, internal distress and slip and fall injuries can be crippling, if not deadly.

Secondarily, I find the game of push hands to be endlessly fascinating. The subtlety and power of the internal arts applied to this laboratory for experimentation is compelling and rewarding.

Going further, as a habitual loner who doesn't find much of value in traditional organizations such as churches or moose lodges, the in-person community surrounding the study and practice of taijiquan is welcoming and educational. My best, perhaps my only true friends are the ones I've made through my taijiquan journey. Online, well not so much, but face to face I've made many a glorious connection.

I'd also list intellectual stimulation, as learning and discussing the theories of the art and putting them into practical use is an activity that can keep me engaged and interested for the rest of my life as far as I can tell now.

Learning about and preserving the cultural uniqueness of the arts is likewise interesting and satisfies some inner yearning for the exotic.

Self defense, of course, is on the list, but I've found that for the most part those situations are easily avoided without resorting to hand to hand combat.

Sport fighting? Not really. If I never catch or throw another punch intended to do bodily harm I'd be perfectly happy.

So, please, tell me, why do you devote your time and energy to the study and practice of your art? Why are you participating in an online forum dedicated to them?
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Bao on Tue Dec 14, 2021 5:30 am

Thank you for sharing your thoughts: )

Why are you participating in an online forum dedicated to them?


Back in the days, almost no one practiced Tai Chi in my own country. There were no people around to speak with, sharing ideas with. Or worth speaking to. Still, there are very few who are dedicated enough to even want to think about those things outside their weekly training in the classroom. Why I still participate online? Honestly, I think it just has become a bad habit... ;D


So, please, tell me, why do you devote your time and energy to the study and practice of your art?


We often start doing something for one reason and continue for another one. I don't really know how to explain it. My practice and dedication to my art has become a part of my identity, a part of who I am. I practice, I read and study about it, I write, I discuss. It's not something I struggle to make time for. But more, it's something that never really leaves me.

My Tai Chi helps me to understand myself and the world better. My practice gives me a space of calmness I can go to whenever I want. I don't believe I would feel this grounded in myself that I do.

On the physical side, by continuing to practice, I maintain a certain core strength and leg strength. I believe this is very important for health and well-being.

You mentioned self defence... Yeah, that was the reason I started learning it. However, I have stopped thinking about Tai Chi in those terms. In this respect, I believe that maintaining mental balance and calmness is the best gift Tai Chi can give you. If you can't be provoked and don't react on aggression while keeping your calmness, you will always have a great psychological advantage.

And to answer on "What are you goals?"

Sure there are some specific aspects I want to develop further, but I have no plans to find new teachers or to sign up for seminars. I have enough to work on as it is, and a very clear goal regarding what I want to achieve. Maybe I will take on more private students, and I would love to travel around just to meet up with different people. In general I just want to continue the journey and try to continue to polish myself on the road. The journey and the goal is the same.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby everything on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:58 am

similar to you, oragami_itto. health/quality of life is #1. the subtlety/power are indeed interesting. the main interesting ima thing. athletic and social attributes are far better in the most popular sports, imho. in a circular argument, those are some reasons they are likely so popular. but you can't do that for long. that's why i put in the work for those while i can and not enough into ima (which would make a lot more sense given priority #1).
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Bob on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:48 am

Another way to look at the question is to ask, "What inside of you seeks and finds expression in your practice of taijiquan?"

Coming out of a hard core whiskey and beer steel mill town with only one Asian family known to the community (Chinese - ironically owners of a laundromat) Chinese culture was virtually unknown.

Then, living in another state, a "thousand years later", an elderly woman playing "part the wild horse's mane" caught my eyes esthetically - not knowing what it was I was simply drawn to it out of its beauty and grace - nothing more, nothing less.

However, once the mythic power of taiji invincibility wore off, it became fairly evident that praying mantis & bajiquan served better for purposes of self-defense but the experience and practice of taiji remained imprinted in me and this led to many wonderful experiences into China and the martial arts world in general - As said above it became an expression of my life.

Sometimes extrinsic objectives unfold from an intrinsically grounded experience and if the extrinsic goals become to too tightly woven the intrinsic fire extinguishes i.e. no more interest in taijiquan - always guarded against setting to many objective goals

In my world today, conceal and carry along with clever lawyers rule the range of self-defense encounters - not a safe world either way.
Last edited by Bob on Tue Dec 14, 2021 12:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby windwalker on Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:06 am

In my own journey I have had many teachers/guides along the way.
In the 70s as a young teenager growing up in San Francisco during the troubled times of the day.

Looking for a refuge, Chinese Martial Arts “CMA” opened its door and invited me in.
Little did I know, I would never leave.

after losing a match in Korea, reflecting on why, and what...While in in Hawaii a friend suggested I study taiji to understand different aspects he felt I was missing in my practice.
All CMA is internal, one can not practice them and not run into the cultural aspects underlying the creation of the arts/methods that make a distinction between internal and external focuses, and how the inner aspects are expressed in both. "Burning palm" external "kong jin" internal ect.

My last taiji teacher, exemplified all the stories and abilities that I had read about of past Masters.

After meeting him, stopped all other practices to focus on his practice, now my practice.

Practiced with his group, as a formal student of his in China for some 10yrs to gain an understanding', spent another 10yrs or so working on the understanding gained.

as to goals..... deepen my own understanding, meet others of deeper skill to confirm ,
align the process with a more systemized method for myself and others I work with.

this site....

Find reading the postings interesting
often not understanding the conclusions some post from...

as some have mentioned its " a habit" like reading the news over morning coffee.
Last edited by windwalker on Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:41 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby GrahamB on Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:57 am

My goals have always remained the same.

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

Damn you Azura.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby marvin8 on Tue Dec 14, 2021 3:16 pm

GrahamB wrote:My goals have always remained the same.

To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!

Damn you Azura.

Similarly, my goal when practicing martial art is to become better at martial art (any of various fighting sports or skills, mainly of East Asian origin, such as kung fu...) with that comes various benefits.

Excerpt from "Tai Chi and Martial Art Applications:"

Dr Paul Lam wrote:The Final Stage of Tai Chi Training For Martial Art

Now we move to the ultimate purpose of martial art: total control of your opponent. This could mean severely injuring him or her. While tai chi is based on the philosophy of yin-yang harmony and balance of nature, it was, after all, designed to be an effective martial art. Most tai chi movements show martial intention and have the potential to hurt someone. For example Golden Guard Stamping Foot aims at hitting the chin, top of the head and punching the abdomen with internal force. Such thoughts send shivers down my spine. I, as well as most of my tai chi friends when we practice, certainly don’t want to think about hurting anyone. Naturally, there are different levels of control. Ideally a high-level tai chi practitioner can control his opponent without hurting him.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby wayne hansen on Tue Dec 14, 2021 8:50 pm

That will do me Paul Lam for fighting
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Doc Stier on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:32 pm

Having already attained internal kungfu invincibility long ago, I am now totally focused on attaining an ageless body and a timeless mind for perpetual Taoist immortality. ::)

If anyone here actually believes that, I own a gorgeous seaside property in Oklahoma which I would gladly sell to you for the right price. Lol ;D
Last edited by Doc Stier on Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby greytowhite on Tue Dec 14, 2021 9:56 pm

My goal is to integrate my esoteric Buddhist empowerments and my Baguazhang. The Simhanada Avalokiteshvara and 8 Nagas seems to have relation to my practice. I have just started to experiment with the possibility of the various bits from Nilambaradhara Vajrapani.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby origami_itto on Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:27 pm

wayne hansen wrote:That will do me Paul Lam for fighting


Yeah, he's clearly regurgitating the classics without any sort of actual experience with the reality. Not to disparage the guy, he's done a lot of good in the tai chi for health area of study, but I'm pretty sure I remember a declaration of pacifism coming from his own mouth. If not directly, then nowhere in his extensive online biography is any mention of martial application made.

That being said, I've had some small glimpse of the truth of those words, both in myself as a bouncer applying it to others, in myself when working with lesser skilled people in push hands, and in others of greater skill as applied to me.

The classics claim total mastery of your opponent, and the ability to knock them down at the first touch of their clothing. I'm pretty happy getting some measure of mastery of myself at this point. I accidentally impressed my boss by riding the Atlanta airport shuttle without holding on to anything.

Doc Stier wrote:Having already attained internal kungfu invincibility long ago, I am now totally focused on attaining an ageless body and a timeless mind for perpetual Taoist immortality. 8-)

If anyone here actually believes that, I own a gorgeous seaside property in Oklahoma which I would gladly sell to you for the right price. Lol ;D


I'll pay $50 for one!

But sincerely, what motivates you? Inertia? What started you studying and what keeps you going?
Last edited by origami_itto on Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby yeniseri on Tue Dec 14, 2021 10:42 pm

Truthfully, I have had no specific goals but yangsheng traditions have been part of my spiritual developement, or lack thereof, and I am on the long journey to where, I do not have an answer.
I started out in taekwondo, and switched to CMA )taijiquan) as the "old ways" of the past stick in my head. Sadly, martial taijiquan is no more compared to that past era.

Yangsheng traditon is vast and wide but I know less that 5% but I am satidfied with what little I have attained.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Finny on Wed Dec 15, 2021 12:39 am

I'm just trying to learn Judo and Sosuishi ryu jujutsu.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Doc Stier on Wed Dec 15, 2021 10:40 am

I began martial art studies with Korean Tang Soo Do Moo Duk Kwan, Hapkido, and Tae Kwon Do in January 1961 at 12 years old, primarily to learn effective methods of self-defense. The Old School training methods taught by my Korean master quickly improved my overall physical athleticism via greater strength, flexibility, balance, and body control, while also greatly increasing my confidence in dealing with the large, aggressive bullies at school and elsewhere.

In 1966, I was introduced to the Chinese IMA styles included in the Shen Men Tao System by a Chinese friend at school. For the following two years I practiced both Korean and Chinese styles simultaneously. During this period of time, I realized that I personally resonated better with the principles and fighting techniques of the Chinese arts, so I left the Korean arts in 1968 with a 2nd Degree Black Belt rank in all three of those styles to pursue an exclusive practice of the Chinese IMA styles, which I have continued daily since then.

The IMA classes included in-depth studies of anatomy and physiology; the basic concepts of Classical Oriental Medicine; nutritional dietary and herbal healing; Taoist meditation, nei-tan, tien-kan, tao-yin and yang-sheng methods; traditional weapons, and so much more which appealed to me. I perceived these various related studies to be of greater potential benefit to my general overall state of health and wellness going forward than continuing in the Korean styles simply to achieve higher Black Belt Degree ranks.

My current training priorities are focused on maintaining and perpetuating the health benefits and soft style martial art skills acquired from these methods thus far. It's all good!
Last edited by Doc Stier on Wed Dec 15, 2021 1:31 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: What are your goals?

Postby Finny on Fri Dec 17, 2021 1:33 am

When's the book coming Doc?
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