the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I like him because he takes a lot of risk with Real tuishou without false connivance or total submission of the disciple like Adam mizner

So Chen zhi qiang sometimes win sometimes lose
Here win

Against a wrestler
https://youtu.be/dTP16HPFMms

Précise analyse https://youtu.be/mJKwFCImBzg

With other
https://youtu.be/zyK4b3LLIx0
https://youtu.be/-15dlstn3JM


Sometimes losing against man who has his double of weight

https://youtu.be/xq1t82FjdFg
https://youtu.be/IckmEy6oRCU


Hère différence with Adam mizner who has his own ego workshop maybe hé has a comb hair to style haïr during the tuishou because it s so easy . He may have a statut of himself at home and bow down on it ?
https://youtu.be/-T6243doOm4

Here siting https://youtu.be/CWbUKqXcbSo

Hère without submission of his disciple
Adam mizner IS totally banal not a master at all
https://youtu.be/vKtePM39S3g

Don't be surprised. 99.9% of Taijiquan practitioners that claim to do it as a martial art have no fighting skill whatsoever. I only met a handful in China that were like Chen Shifu and didn't mind risking their face. He puts himself out there to experiment and hone his craft, rather than create a personality cult around parlor tricks - which is exactly what that kind of Tuishou is, against a shitty "opponent".

I can easily send my students flying with a crisp strike and very little effort these days, which is impressive to them, but doing that to a fully resisting, skilled fighter is another matter entirely. I have developed the power to a high degree, but it needs to be combined with the correct timing, distance, psychology etc. for me to actually land it in sparring and that can only be trained by drilling and lots of sparring!

Tuishou is meant as a safe drill to test certain principles and techniques, etc. before moving on to wrestling and/or sparring. It is nothing more and nothing less. I take no issue with Chen Shifu turning his art into a wrestling style, as that is what Taiji is best for anyways and it's good to remain focused. I hope that he also teaches the Qinna to go along with it, as they are quite complementary.

I'm not a fan of Adam Mizner , however, Chen Zhiqiang dont impress me even a bit. Being willing to grapple doesnt make you a good grappler

jaime_g wrote:I'm not a fan of Adam Mizner , however, Chen Zhiqiang dont impress me even a bit. Being willing to grapple doesnt make you a good grappler

A another view point concerning chen style.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLE3rLwszEE

jaime_g wrote:I'm not a fan of Adam Mizner , however, Chen Zhiqiang dont impress me even a bit. Being willing to grapple doesnt make you a good grappler

It's tough for a villager to compete with Olympic athletes. It's not only about who is better at grappling, but preserving the method. There is more than one way to grapple and more than one way to strike. It is important to pass on that knowledge. It's good to have options.

windwalker wrote:

jaime_g wrote:I'm not a fan of Adam Mizner , however, Chen Zhiqiang dont impress me even a bit. Being willing to grapple doesnt make you a good grappler

A another view point concerning chen style.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLE3rLwszEE

I had a quick look. Looks interesting. I'll watch the whole thing later. Are you for or against this approach?

MaartenSFS wrote:
I'll watch the whole thing later. Are you for or against this approach?

[/quote]


My point was marketing, in comparing those who "market"
Each has its own focus and approach depending on "market"

For established methods, ie styles,
they may feel no need to reestablish the validity of the method rather focusing on preserving the method.
Marketing it to those looking for "historical" methods

Modern sportive combat arts are not concerned for the most part of preserving anything other than using what is needed to compete and win the event.
The level of pro competitors is very high, maybe unbelievable to those who've not encountered them..

Thats all they do, train...

AL2016 wrote:Hère différence with Adam mizner who has his own ego workshop maybe hé has a comb hair to style haïr during the tuishou because it s so easy . He may have a statut of himself at home and bow down on it ?
https://youtu.be/-T6243doOm4

Here siting https://youtu.be/CWbUKqXcbSo

Hère without submission of his disciple
Adam mizner IS totally banal not a master at all
https://youtu.be/vKtePM39S3g

With all due respect for your personal opinions regarding Adam Mizner, such slanderous comments about any teacher would be better addressed at sites like the Fajin Project or Bullshido, which specialize in bashing teachers whom they dislike and disapprove of. No matter who is publicly targeted in that way, I find it unnecessary and distasteful. Many people have been sued for less. Just saying.

The main issue that I find with tuishou vs grappling comparison is that neither, as competitive modalities replaces the traditional understanding of power and how's its expressed. You can hide your lack of internal power with compliance as well as aggression.

AL2016 wrote:So Chen zhi qiang sometimes win sometimes lose
Here win
Against a wrestler
https://youtu.be/dTP16HPFMms
Précise analyse https://youtu.be/mJKwFCImBzg

For the 100 trillionth time: THIS WAS HIS STUDENT AT A SEMINAR!!! NOT A CHALLENGE MATCH! So sick and tired of this nonsense in the taiji world where anyone in boxing gloves becomes a "world champion boxer" and anyone that wears a pair of MMA gloves becomes "UFC heavyweight champion" to puff up fragile egos in the taiji community.

Formosa Neijia wrote:

AL2016 wrote:So Chen zhi qiang sometimes win sometimes lose
Here win
Against a wrestler
https://youtu.be/dTP16HPFMms
Précise analyse https://youtu.be/mJKwFCImBzg

For the 100 trillionth time: THIS WAS HIS STUDENT AT A SEMINAR!!! NOT A CHALLENGE MATCH! So sick and tired of this nonsense in the taiji world where anyone in boxing gloves becomes a "world champion boxer" and anyone that wears a pair of MMA gloves becomes "UFC heavyweight champion" to puff up fragile egos in the taiji community.

Previous RSF thread, "Chen Ziqiang PH clip -- the one you haven't seen." Chen zhi qiang vs William Miller:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq1t82FjdFg

Edit: Now, I realize the link was already in the OP. I agree the context is not a competition with a real aggressive opponent.

I'm glad to see footwork such as "stealing step" and "leg skill" are used in Taiji.

- Spin back with stealing step.
- Attack with leg break.

Doc Stier wrote:

AL2016 wrote:Hère différence with Adam mizner who has his own ego workshop maybe hé has a comb hair to style haïr during the tuishou because it s so easy . He may have a statut of himself at home and bow down on it ?
https://youtu.be/-T6243doOm4

Here siting https://youtu.be/CWbUKqXcbSo

Hère without submission of his disciple
Adam mizner IS totally banal not a master at all
https://youtu.be/vKtePM39S3g

With all due respect for your personal opinions regarding Adam Mizner, such slanderous comments about any teacher would be better addressed at sites like the Fajin Project or Bullshido, which specialize in bashing teachers whom they dislike and disapprove of. No matter who is publicly targeted in that way, I find it unnecessary and distasteful. Many people have been sued for less. Just saying.

What's the Fajin Project?
Name-calling is a bit much, but if bullshit isn't called out then that is doing a disservice to the community.

MaartenSFS wrote:Name-calling is a bit much, but if bullshit isn't called out then that is doing a disservice to the community.

Agreed. Nonetheless, enough is enough. Anyone who regularly visits this group page or other online martial art discussion forums has undoubtedly seen the teacher trash talk many times before.

If I find the writings and videos of a given teacher not to my personal liking, I simply ignore them. Move along, don't waste your time. Nothing more is necessary.

We need to give those who deserves the credit. The downward pulling in this clip is an excellent skill.