Bhassler wrote:Unless you're physically damaging yourself beyond ordinary training effects in strength training, larger, stronger muscles do not equate to "tightness" at all. Muscular tension (or not) is a function of the nervous system. So there may be some benefit to taking a break from other forms of physical activities that reinforce existing non-helpful habits while learning new ways of movement associated with IMA, but that shouldn't be generalized to a prohibition against other strenuous forms of activity long term. Many people would actually benefit from the additional proprioception gained by hard physical work/training. Also, tight muscles are frequently weak muscles, and sometimes building strength sensibly in the extreme ranges of motion can serve to unlock stubborn flexibility issues.
The other consideration is just one of available resources. If you're lifting weights, you're not practicing gongfu, etc. Also, we only have so much physical stress we can recover from day to day, and if someone adds other types of physical exercise on top of gongfu, that's competing for the same finite resources as one's martial arts training. So in that sense it's just a basic evaluation of cost to benefit ratio as it relates to one's training and overall goals in life. But if someone has the time and energy, then they likely would find other, varied activities to ultimately be quite complementary to internal body training.
everything wrote:One question is where did these “don’t do this” ideas come from?
If we try to find what people like Sun, Guo Yunsheng, Wang Xiangzhai and others said,
There is some commonality. Zhan zhuang, sink Qi, etc.
As far as I can tell, people don’t listen.
So why are they making up long lists of don’t dos?
Is there somewhere where Sun said “don’t do…”?
I can only find shit he says to DO that people don’t do.
marvin8 wrote:Not "internal," however ...
Punchin' In
Aug 5, 2021
American Top Team's Coach of the Year Mike Brown discusses his views on strength and conditioning and how it applies to MMA in todays era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFwe2BQDGB4
Former American Top Team's S & C Coach, Phil Daru.
Phil Daru
Mar 1, 2021
Bio -
Phil Daru is the Head trainer for some of the top athletes in the world and creator of Daru Strong Training Systems and founder of Daru Strong Performance Center. Daru has degrees in sports medicine and exercise science from Alabama State University where he played division 1 football. Holding certifications with Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) Certified Functional Strength Coach (CFSC) Functional Range Movement Specialist (FRCms) and Kabuki Movement Specialist (NSCA-KMS).
Daru then began a career in MMA and turned professional at 21 years old where he then developed his own systems for training fighters. Daru has also competed in strongman, bodybuilding, and Bjj Gi and No Gi and currently competes in powerlifting. He has worked with well over 200 plus fighters including world champions like Joanna Jedrzejczyk, Dustin Poirier, Edson Barboza, Junior Dos Santos, Frankie Edgar, Tecia Torres, King Mo Lawal, Andrei Arlovski and many others. Coach Daru is a two time award winning Trainer of the Year for the Florida MMA Awards and Nominated for the Trainer of the Year for the World MMA Awards. He has been globally recognized for his contributions in combat sports performance and has traveled to over 10 countries teaching and mentoring. We want to welcome you to this channel and hope you enjoy the content!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqQkShM0zds
Fubo wrote:marvin8 wrote:Not "internal," however ...
Punchin' In
Aug 5, 2021
American Top Team's Coach of the Year Mike Brown discusses his views on strength and conditioning and how it applies to MMA in todays era.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFwe2BQDGB4
Former American Top Team's S & C Coach, Phil Daru.
Phil Daru
Mar 1, 2021
Bio -
Phil Daru is the Head trainer for some of the top athletes in the world and creator of Daru Strong Training Systems and founder of Daru Strong Performance Center. Daru has degrees in sports medicine and exercise science from Alabama State University where he played division 1 football. Holding certifications with Certified Strength and Conditioning Specialist (CSCS) Certified Functional Strength Coach (CFSC) Functional Range Movement Specialist (FRCms) and Kabuki Movement Specialist (NSCA-KMS).
Daru then began a career in MMA and turned professional at 21 years old where he then developed his own systems for training fighters. Daru has also competed in strongman, bodybuilding, and Bjj Gi and No Gi and currently competes in powerlifting. He has worked with well over 200 plus fighters including world champions like Joanna Jedrzejczyk, Dustin Poirier, Edson Barboza, Junior Dos Santos, Frankie Edgar, Tecia Torres, King Mo Lawal, Andrei Arlovski and many others. Coach Daru is a two time award winning Trainer of the Year for the Florida MMA Awards and Nominated for the Trainer of the Year for the World MMA Awards. He has been globally recognized for his contributions in combat sports performance and has traveled to over 10 countries teaching and mentoring. We want to welcome you to this channel and hope you enjoy the content!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cqQkShM0zds
I agree with what he says, but I think the point I was getting at is not what the best way to development strength or attributes relative to your art is, but whether or not activities like ice skating, skateboarding, bike riding etc. which all have a strong lower body developmental aspect to it, impede the lower body development of IMA, because they may focus on different muscle groups, and maybe specifically one's that IMA people work hard to activity try to remain relaxed.
kenneth fish wrote:Robert Young brings up an interesting point - the difference in how Chinese traditionally looked at the world, and how "Westernized" Chinese look at the world - an ongoing process.
Although the Chinese can lay claim to high levels of technical and basic scientific achievement prior to the West's industrial revolution, the "scientific mindset" did not really exist - by which I mean a kind of intellectual training by which natural phenomena are systematically examined and tested. Still, the methods of Chinese forensics, chemistry, engineering, astronomy, and metallurgy have much in common with modern methods.
Traditional Chinese thought placed significant emphasis on classification, organization, and the naming of things - there are entire schools of thought in this regard. In Chinese medicine there are entire treatises that discuss/argue the classification and proper terminology for specific disease entities. In Chinese martial arts there is some degree of agreement on terms as well - particularly in the Shaolin traditions, but across the arts as well (although this is less the case with respect to martial arts tied to mystic traditions, such as Daoism).
With that in mind I am have attempted to classify, broadly and generally, the different types of jibengong (not jibendongzuo, although some could probably fall into the categories below as well):
Strength: Jibengong that develop strength in: Small muscles, large muscles, stabilizers, strength within a limited range of motion across a single joint, strength through a large range of motion involving several joints.
Stability: Exercises that build stability for stancework, , stepping, gripping, and balance
Balance: exercises that teach balance on two feet on a narrow base, exercises that teach balance on a single point, exercises that develop whole body balance (for example balancing laying on ones back on a suspended length of rope)
Plyometric strength: Exercises that train explosive movement and/or ballistic, dynamic, movements. Exercises that develop the ability to jump.
Speed: Exercises that develop speed in stepping, turning, kicking and punching (although the exercises may not direct employ kicking or punching)
Range of motion: Exercises that increase functional range of motion (not stretching)
Penetration and force: Exercises that develop the foundation for striking power, penetration, and focus
Multiple Axis exercises: Exercises that teach awareness of and movement around various axis and lines of motion (these are not stepping or similar movement drills - they are mostly standing in place)
The above tend to be single movement, generally of limited range, may or may not employ equipment such as weights, hammers, spears, jars, and specialty devices.
There is one last issue that we have touched on before - some exercises may be publicly taught - but without the "key" idea of what to look for at each level of training and how to train them, one doesn't get the benefit . In other words, the answers to the key questions "what should this feel like? How do I know if I am doing this right? What is the result of the exercise? Usually this last question is answered first - the teacher demonstrates something, then shows the exercise needed to develop the strength etc for the action demonstrated.
marvin8 wrote:It is they (Mike and Phil) with opposing views on S & C for fighting/competition. Phil Daru was let go from ATT.
What muscle groups are important in IMA? If your activities build the same attributes as the following, my guess is they would not impede "development of IMA," although they may not be as efficient and there may be an opportunity cost as Bhassler mentioned.
From previous RSF post, "So what exactly is Jibengong anyways?"kenneth fish wrote:Robert Young brings up an interesting point - the difference in how Chinese traditionally looked at the world, and how "Westernized" Chinese look at the world - an ongoing process.
Although the Chinese can lay claim to high levels of technical and basic scientific achievement prior to the West's industrial revolution, the "scientific mindset" did not really exist - by which I mean a kind of intellectual training by which natural phenomena are systematically examined and tested. Still, the methods of Chinese forensics, chemistry, engineering, astronomy, and metallurgy have much in common with modern methods.
Traditional Chinese thought placed significant emphasis on classification, organization, and the naming of things - there are entire schools of thought in this regard. In Chinese medicine there are entire treatises that discuss/argue the classification and proper terminology for specific disease entities. In Chinese martial arts there is some degree of agreement on terms as well - particularly in the Shaolin traditions, but across the arts as well (although this is less the case with respect to martial arts tied to mystic traditions, such as Daoism).
With that in mind I am have attempted to classify, broadly and generally, the different types of jibengong (not jibendongzuo, although some could probably fall into the categories below as well):
Strength: Jibengong that develop strength in: Small muscles, large muscles, stabilizers, strength within a limited range of motion across a single joint, strength through a large range of motion involving several joints.
Stability: Exercises that build stability for stancework, , stepping, gripping, and balance
Balance: exercises that teach balance on two feet on a narrow base, exercises that teach balance on a single point, exercises that develop whole body balance (for example balancing laying on ones back on a suspended length of rope)
Plyometric strength: Exercises that train explosive movement and/or ballistic, dynamic, movements. Exercises that develop the ability to jump.
Speed: Exercises that develop speed in stepping, turning, kicking and punching (although the exercises may not direct employ kicking or punching)
Range of motion: Exercises that increase functional range of motion (not stretching)
Penetration and force: Exercises that develop the foundation for striking power, penetration, and focus
Multiple Axis exercises: Exercises that teach awareness of and movement around various axis and lines of motion (these are not stepping or similar movement drills - they are mostly standing in place)
The above tend to be single movement, generally of limited range, may or may not employ equipment such as weights, hammers, spears, jars, and specialty devices.
There is one last issue that we have touched on before - some exercises may be publicly taught - but without the "key" idea of what to look for at each level of training and how to train them, one doesn't get the benefit . In other words, the answers to the key questions "what should this feel like? How do I know if I am doing this right? What is the result of the exercise? Usually this last question is answered first - the teacher demonstrates something, then shows the exercise needed to develop the strength etc for the action demonstrated.
everything wrote:One question is where did these “don’t do this” ideas come fromage?
wayne hansen wrote:It’s not what muscles you train it’s how you train them
Ice skating trains the leg muscles in a totally different way
I went from a job in industrial law to lugging boxes of bananas at the markets
2000 a day at the insistance of one of my teachers
It was invaluable
I saw Sun do a kick flip the other day
He can’t skate
Fubo wrote:what are your thoughts on engaging in other lower body heavy activities that work the lower body in different ways? Do you think, have you found, they disrupt the “internal” development by developing different muscles, or does nothing get in the way of “internal” lower body development? what are your thoughts on engaging in other lower body heavy activities that Basically, can you do things like cycling, skateboarding, roller skating etc, and maintain your “internal” body development?
Fubo wrote:... because they may focus on different muscle groups, and maybe specifically one's that IMA people work hard to activity try to remain relaxed.
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