Fascial tension gives rise to Qi

[Quigga]

Re Qi sickness
I had it all. Messiah complex, emotional turmoil, dissociation, being too much up there for too long or drowning in the energetic sea of air. Anxiety, paranoia. Too much trauma coming up too quick.

My solution? Either sabotaging myself or just plowing through it as fast as I could with little regard for my self. Lots of obsessive training and rearranging as much as I could around practice.

One of the many errors I made was underestimating the importance of the pelvic muscles in the process. Since fixing that, I feel much better.

[Quigga]

Guarding the center and lower dantian:
I was just getting a bit pissy because I felt like I couldn't get through you. All's good.

What I want to say is that there are many ways to put energy into the lower dantian. Energy being Qi, and you probably know the real fun starts when the LDT is overflowing. Storing Qi in the heart is another issue.

Using guidance via Intention, you can:

Inhale hot tea steam and nourish LDT by mentally directing it and identifying with the sensations of warmth, moisture, Qi (making the sensations come alive is important)

Use pore breathing to do the same thing wherever you want

IME you got pipes connected to LDT 5 hearts are important valves. Open hand and feet centres to increase flow in both directions, in and out.

Also, when moving, IMO feeling energy circulate is important. It's not just going or flowing out the arm or out of the structure. The flow is contained within and moves outwards in one layer and inwards in the other one. Or is this double weightedness? Perhaps, but it could also point towards Tai Chi looking like a raging, rolling, long river.

When you combine the 3 treasures in the LDT and can successfully hold onto the golden pill, the practice of guarding the center begins. Maintaining unity, equilibrium, having equanimity. It's the perfect and after some time required state to practice seriously. Also for healing, fighting when necessary.

Not being a slave to your emotions is quite the task.

The pleasure is on my side

[Doc Stier]

With all due respect for the comments and opinions posted here, it seems to me that most people are devoting far too much time trying to intellectually understand and consciously manipulate an internal process which can ultimately only be allowed to progress through proper training and can only be accurately monitored through mindfulness in feeling the transformation as it occurs.

[Quigga]

True

[Yeung]

The question was how to generate fascia tension to activate cognitive perception of bio-energy? Human bio-energy is just a natural phenomenon that we can feel when we are on a passive stance and stretch out the hands with elbow pointing downward. So many thanks for the various confirmations. There are many studies on this subject from science and from faith-based. And there are many techniques which are very interesting. The followings are some remarks that I came across form long time practitioners of Qigong and Zhan Zhuang:

1. You can accumulate bio-energy but you can not store it (like fat)
2. Your bio-energy can be drained (from someone with very low energy level)
3. Your bio-field can communicate with other people and it is not possible to shut yourself from it (from someone with stress or mental illness)
4. Beware of seductive traps of spiritual and psychic power
5. Beware of esoteric teachings

I am sure members of RSF have came across these kinds of remarks.

[origami_itto]

Can this "bio energy" and "bio field" be shown to affect or interact with any substance or measurable energy field other than individual subjective human perception?

[everything]

I think studies have tried to look at that question. Here is some review (didn't read the whole thing) of some results (found randomly) of qigong studies.
https://oatext.com/The-physical-physiol ... hp#Article

Some of these could be due to "meditation" rather than "qigong".

[Appledog]

Can this "bio energy" and "bio field" be shown to affect or interact with any substance or measurable energy field other than individual subjective human perception?

"The emission of Qi outside of the body is preposterous." -- Wang Xiang-Zai

Physical development of the human body which improves your strength and co-ordination, alongside 'acquired postures', is not a separate force such as electromagnetism or static electricity which can be measured independently. Improved balance is not a separate force which can be measured independently. Increased skill in a sub-genre of music or a study of a particular composer's works compared to a general study or different composer is not in and of itself a separate energy which has a frequency or a modulation that can be measured in any appreciable way when you play. There is no particular physical energy or force which exists which you will be able to measure when someone has or does not have 'chi' or is expressing a jing. Awareness of the central pivot is mental awareness and a choice to focus on certain areas of the body. Movements like raise hands, high pat on horse, and golden rooster do not have a kind of force or energy independent of anything which can be measured such that a movement like 'stop the cart to ask for directions; from LHBF would have a different measurable energy. In short you can't just pick a daoyin or qigong at random and expect it to help you in your art. It might help in some other way but it would be kind of like learning two musical instruments or languages at the same time. It could be confusing.

On to how -- is this possible with the understanding of suit, or fascia? No. Fascia is a non-traditional understanding of what is going on and it will not lead to the correct results. In Tai Chi, which is a neigong art, you have to understand the theory even if you cannot express it or you will not know what to look for. Not knowing what to look for, if you see it, you will miss it and remain in the dark. However if you know what to look for, then once you see it, you can go from there. You have to see it before you can touch it, and if you can't touch it then it cannot move. The correct training will work for you even if you don't feel your qi flow, as long as you have correct instruction and practice, as long as you know the basic idea it will work because of how the art is constructed. That is the meaning of an 'acquired' posture. You have it at the level it works whether or not you can feel your qi. How is this set up in the body?

The question was how to generate fascia tension to activate cognitive perception of bio-energy?

It's not really a secret -- the answer is to say quite simply, the way in which this tension is generated in order to cause the perception of the bio energy is daoyin tu. The problem is that there are so many such exercises, and it may be impossible to figure out which ones will really help your art without guidance. It may also be impossible to get this level of guidance because I sincerely doubt anyone teaches the art at this level anymore. Today the way in which these arts are taught is to teach qigong movements or forms, both of which may be only loosely based on the daoyin tu from whence they came. In many cases the movements may have also been modified to gain a martial application where one previously did not exist. It's an important consideration because what our goal is in the martial arts is not to generate qi for no purpose, for cross purposes or for impractical purposes -- but for purposes related to our art. For example if I wanted to learn tai chi there would be no purpose for me to study movements from LHBF. It wouldn't be wrong necessarily but it would have a different feeling than tai chi and from the standpoint of training it would make things difficult to pick up. From the standpoint of 'master level' go ahead and take what you can because your gonna need it. But for learners it's best to keep things simple.

If you had absolutely nothing else to do and were curious about it, it might be fun to research the various daoyin movements or try to pick them out of sets like the eight pieces of brocade and try to figure out which ones complement movements in your form. Then again doing the form just one more time might have a greater benefit to you.

As for the other part of your message I don't agree, that kind of bio-energy isn't really a practical thing compared to this.

[windwalker]

Can this "bio energy" and "bio field" be shown to affect or interact with any substance or measurable energy field other than individual subjective human perception?

Acupuncture Today – November, 2008, Vol. 09, Issue 11
Evidence of Instant Effect of External Qi
BY YIN LO, PHD

Let me describe a simple experiment to provide some evidence for the existence of external qi. This experiment is performed by a healer who will emit external qi without touching the patient.

Not touching the patient is important here, because any effect found on the patient cannot be attributed to the nervous system. Something must transmit through the empty space between the healer and the patient.

Electrical signals or biochemical reactions that are transmitted through the nervous system do not travel through empty space.

https://www.acupuncturetoday.com/mpacms ... p?id=31838

[Yeung]

[Yeung]

The Chinese Health Qigong Association has compiled 12 sets of exercise from the Mawangdui Daoyin Tu in 2010.

[everything]

Here are some of the summary conclusions from the link i pasted above. TL;DR: there are real effects measured in many studies. However, it's hard to do scientific method on this kind of subject. Small sample sizes, few "masters" to study, no "generic qigong" to study, etc.

Discussion
In summary, our review shows that there has been an increased body of literature on Qigong-related effects concerning physiological processes and variables. Most of these studies suggested that Qigong practice brings significant changes on parameters such as the blood pressure, heart rate variability, decrease of plasma triglycerides, total cholesterol and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol, an increase of HDL cholesterol, skin temperature, as well as immunological and neurohormonal enhancements.

These findings show that the bio-physiological effects of Qigong may apply to persons of all age groups, ranging from primary school children, college students to mid-age adults or older adults. Our finding also demonstrates that most of the studies on Qigong-related effects concerning physiological, biological, or CVD-related processes were applied in various chronic disease preventions or intervention studies. We still have the most rudimentary understanding on how these processes may manifest itself in chronic stress reduction or stress management. Overall, many authors only examined stress as secondary outcomes [62]. Trial research has found that Qigong practice may improve certain conditions, especially those that are chronic like musculoskeletal disorders and psychological distress. Type of Qigong and length of practice may influence results. However, many limitations exist, especially concerning study design. More methodological rigorous research exploring the particular pathway of Qigong practice and stress reduction is needed.
....

Limitations
Despite these significant findings, there are some limitations to the current state of methodological issues pertaining to Qigong research. First, small sample size makes it difficult to interpret results and raises questions in generalizability. For example, current publication on external qi on physical and biological systems frequently involves a single, or few qigong masters. Such situations may also introduce conflict of interests; participants should not be involved in the design of the study and should be blinded during the measurement. Second, there is a lack of sophisticated research design and compatible control groups undermine the results of many methods studies. Third, most Qigong practices may lack a facilitation program or manual to be successfully replicated. Given there is no generic form of Qigong, which calls to question how closely the type of Qigong used in these research trials resembles traditional forms, whether the cultural component of Qigong influences researchers and participants, and whether Qigong is treated just as a low-intensity exercise.

[origami_itto]

None of the studies pass muster. Insufficient controls, insufficient data, shaky methods. Like the guy with the cooling back. What is the significance of heat on the back. What was the person doing before they were measured. What were their instructions. What environments was the person in before and while being measured. If we don't have the science to say definitively, then it's foolish to make definitive statements.

Tcm says we get qi from food and air. Science tells us ATP stores energy from food and hemoglobin stores oxygen from air and when those are combined we have energy to fuel cells and muscles and biological processes

Chinese say they have sad qi when they're depressed. Science tells us that hormone levels translate into what we interpret as emotions and has even devised pills to change them.

Chinese call the weather sky qi. Science tells us about pressure differentials and the water cycle and can measure the distance and angle from the sun at the particular time.

It may be perfectly accurate to describe driving a car as pushing the qi increaser with your right foot while using your hands to direct the qi through the qi wheel. But keep an eye on the qi meter and visit the qi station to top it off with some gasoline loaded with qi it it won't go anywhere. You may be able to operate and own a vehicle your entire life with no greater understanding than that, and it's accurate as far as you can test.

Masters say that the tcm qi I described is not the same as the qi you use in fighting. So what's the real qi? Seems to me that it's just a stand in word to cover things that aren't fully and accurately understood. Energy is a good translation because it also has many different manifestations, causes, and effects. Chemical energy, potential, mechanical, electrical, radiant, inertia, force.

So rather than deferring to whoever has the most convincing patter, why not seek out the truth. The actual causes and mechanisms?

I mean if you're fine and dandy just piloting your qi chariot, more power to you. But if you can genuinely work with a mysterious force that science has yet to quantify that has the wide ranging applications in healing and ... Psychic powers? Whatever qi mastery is said to provide for us.

Anyhow, if you can genuinely work with such a force, then find a research scientist and do some experiments. We found the higgs bosun, we can define qi. Just need to convince the right people there's some money in it. Folks have been trying since forever and have precious little to show for it. Primarily because when you get away from the immediateness of subjective experience and the meaning we construct from it and into hard, reproducible data, their claims always, ALWAYS fall apart.

[LaoDan]

Qi is a term that is used so broadly that I essentially equate it with the English equivalent: "animating force" (which can also apply to inanimate objects like "animation" in a painting...). Anything that contributes to the animation of something seems to be "qi". This is, of course, too broad to be useful in scientific research. "Qi" is not just ATP (or the oxidation reaction of food...), and would need to be specifically defined for it to have meaning scientifically.

[origami_itto]

Qi is a term that is used so broadly that I essentially equate it with the English equivalent: "animating force" (which can also apply to inanimate objects like "animation" in a painting...). Anything that contributes to the animation of something seems to be "qi". This is, of course, too broad to be useful in scientific research. "Qi" is not just ATP (or the oxidation reaction of food...), and would need to be specifically defined for it to have meaning scientifically.

I mean, this is EXACTLY what I'm screaming here.

I think that, going further, what is subjectively understood as qi in the body also includes neural pathways and the electrical signals that traverse them. We have the fuel in the food/oxygen/ATP, and the control system that regulates consumption of the fuel and the actions of the cells.

On the one hand you consume healthy food and breathe clean air to cultivate fuel, on the other you engage in meditation and physical exercise to cultivate the pathways and signal strength.

What more is there? What niche does some additional Qi substance fill, biologically, to keep us alive and moving? Or is this just a broad term used when something either isn't fully understood, or isn't worth discussing in detail in a particular context?

I fully reject the idea that qi is emitted from the body, travels across open space, and has an effect on any external object or energy field. I would be positively thrilled to be proven wrong. If I had a million dollars I'd put it up for anyone who could prove me wrong to claim. All I can really offer is I'll buy your books and videos and subscribe to your blog. Maybe 3D print you a cool trophy or something.

But clarifying the Qi that is used for fighting would be interesting. Maybe it's just our subjective understanding and mental model of the forces generated by our movements. Our Xin generates an impulse our Yi shapes into an action that would generate a shape to produce the impulse and transmits the signal to the muscle cells that need to be engaged to produce the movement (Qi - control and fuel) and that moves the body to produce the Jin.

Or am I wrong, is it an actual substance or energy?