wayne hansen wrote:Just to put things straight
Thai Keik which descends from yap Sui ting thru tok seng kam and lu tong bao
It has no white crane and the noi gung is not heng ha but deep and profound
Lots of sitting and martial in its outcome
Huang as stated was introduced CMC by master Yap
However the two schools differ in curriculum and philosophy
Nothing in Thai Keik is outside of tai chi
I've often wondered about heng and ha. I was not taught this and was advised against breath control. Likely because my lineage comes from the CFK/Hu Yaozhen idea of natural breathing. Also spoken of by that same Chen Yanlin, BTW, who ironically enough is responsible for 'stealing' a Yang secret book and apparently upsetting the Yang family for publishing things that were supposed to be kept secret. It's in enough books and it's actually explained online in a few places. But of course in different ways so you can't be sure which one is correct. But piecing things together (because I have never been taught heng and ha) (and wanted to understand it), it seems to be a type of fa jing of the breath control based on reverse breathing. As usual, the life stories of the masters often contain strange, shall we say,
kernels... of wisdom... that can often act as clues.
And all that being said, it would be very easy for someone to learn White Crane and hear sounds very similar to heng and ha, and to pick up neigong from that -- whether or not it is the same neigong I don't know. But so much so that I had always assumed heng and ha was from white crane -- an easy speculation to arise at given what I was always taught about breath control. I mean a lot of Tai Chi schools practice White Crane warmups like lifting the shoulders with breathing. I remember once in peace park in Taipei a local taichi school tried to teach me a shoulder opening exercise that was from white crane. RIght after a session of white crane push hands. I mean it was exactly like in the White Crane schools I had seen. But I guess this actually must be a real method in Tai Chi going back quite a while. And all that being said I can see how if you employed a natural breathing method and there was a place where you needed to reverse-open, or reverse-close, and were led to do so ex. 32/high pat on horse, or 40/hurricane kick, that using the aforementioned speculation could serve as a training method to make your moves more powerful. I would also point out that this is about as difficult as 2+2 if you had all the individual pieces in front of you, so I don't consider it a secret. But again I am only speculating.
but only because if I told you the stories I heard from the lineage holders in white crane in taiwan no one would believe me lol