Talk some shen into me

[cloudz]

obviously it's a very esoteric subject. but basically spirit that transcends (rises?)
another way to consider it can be spatial awareness.
practicing yi qi jing causes it to rise - aiming for a state of being

in martial arts it can be used for spirit boxing, moving into the realms of the transcendental.

if you notice though masters like SLT and WXZ talk about emptiness as a final destination of sorts.
I think what I was trying to say before is i think taking things - your main training (tcc taolu I assume) - towards yi less yi or emptiness is the mind body state to move towards.

stick to the task at hand, keep it simple and I like to believe these things will take care of themselves.

[wayne hansen]

Shen is produced by mind
Mind by body
Take care of the first two stages and the third will be there

[yeniseri]

Some of ths stuff is way above my head! My teachers never talked like that per a singular descriptive of a thing regardin gCMA.
I heard the Chinese saying(s) but I never understood but I did realize that shen was unually in conmjunction with "jibengong" when translated. Even the non CMA person has "shen" (In a general descriptive)!

[origami_itto]

Some of ths stuff is way above my head! My teachers never talked like that per a singular descriptive of a thing regardin gCMA.

The mind, body, spirit, and world through which they move are a laboratory. A toybox. Play with them

I'm not saying that what I'm messing with is necessarily a part of CMA but there definitely seems to be some overlap.

I can think of some pretty good reasons teachers that understand what I'm talking about would be careful with how they taught it. It has the potential for ruinous consequences.

[everything]

To ground "emptiness" back to MA, Japanese Godai (different five elements from the xingyi five elements) might be of interest. Small excerpt from the wikipedia entry.

Earth
Emotionally, chi is predominantly associated with collectiveness, stability, physicality, and gravity. It is a desire to have things remain as they are; a resistance to change. In the mind, it is confidence when under the influence of this chi mode or "mood", we are aware of our own physicality and sureness of action. This is a separate concept from the energy-force, pronounced in Chinese as qì (also written ch'i) and in Japanese as ki, and written alternatively as 気, 氣, or 气.

Water
水 Sui or mizu, meaning "Water", represents the fluid, flowing, and the formless things in the world. Sui can be associated with thought, defensiveness, adaptability, flexibility, suppleness, and magnetism.

Fire
火 Ka or hi, meaning "Fire", represents the energetic, forceful, moving things in the world. Ka can be associated with security, motivation, desire, intention, and an outgoing spirit.

Wind
風 Fū or kaze, meaning "Wind", represents things that grow, expand, and enjoy freedom of movement. Mentally and emotionally, it represents an "open-minded" attitude and carefree feeling. It can be associated with will, elusiveness, evasiveness.

Void (Aether)
It-空.png
空 Kū or sora, most often translated as "Void", but also meaning "sky" or "heaven", environment, it represents those things beyond and within our everyday comprehension, particularly those things composed of pure energy before they manifest; the emptiness that the energy is made up of. Bodily, kū represents spirit, thought and creative energy. It can also be associated with the potential of power, creativity, spontaneity and inventiveness.

Kū is of particular importance as the highest of the elements. In martial arts, particularly in fictional tales where the fighting discipline is blended with magic or the occult, one often invokes the power of the Void to connect to the quintessential creative energy of the world. A warrior properly attuned to the Void can sense their surroundings and act without using the mind, and without using their "physical senses".

[origami_itto]

To ground "emptiness" back to MA

I know that SLT mentioned it, and it pops up here and there, so let's ask the question...

To anyone and everyone, what is this emptiness?

[origami_itto]

changing the spiritual attitude I'm maintaining I experience qualitative differences in the feeling and feedback I'm getting from the form.

I think it's more the opposite for me, usually. Having qualitative difference in form or standing or even just posture (not a fan of Amy Cuddy's ted talk as we have all that and more in IMA already, but it popularizes a tiny aspect of these things) affects my "shen".

Well it can go either way, can't it?

It brings to mind that dog whisperer guy pulling a dog's tail out from between its legs to help it be less nervous around other dogs.

The alchemistsc say we're refining sexual energy into spirit which then feeds into producing more sexual energy.
That seems to imply that through the process Shen becomes something more.
More abundant? Stronger?
It would seem that a more cultivated Shen would be less susceptible to outside influence.

In the early pages of the novel Dune, Paul Atreides is training in knife combat with the house master at arms Gurney Halleck.

Gurney says it's time to train and Paul says he's not in the mood.

What has mood to do with it? You fight when the necessity arises—no matter the mood! Mood's a thing for cattle or making love or playing the baliset. It's not for fighting.

So I'm taking mood as Shen here, or at least tightly related.

If we consider our understanding of sprit in the western world of thing that comes to mind is cheerleaders.

Sports teams, professional and amateur, spend a great deal of time and money investing in cheerleaders. Schools shut down for half days to rally behind the teams.

To inspire the spirit of the players. To keep them filled enough to persist and conquer. Compare performance on the home field vs in front of a hostile crowd.

Professional fighters often say you should never have sex before a fight because it saps your strength and will. Except for Mike Tyson who had women in the dressing room to pull some of his beast out to keep from killing people.

So this is essentially what I'm speaking of. I'm not sure precisely how heart is wrapped up in it. Perhaps there is less variance in states of Shen but the feeling and expression is colored by the state of Xin.

For example scolding a child. Is the spirit tired, fulfilled and content, annoyed, overflowing with love?

How is the heart? Angry? Amused? Distracted? How do you want to make the child feel?

You might say what has this to do with Taijiquan but it has everything to do with Taijiquan.

Again I may not have the classical terms fully understood but there is something observable, definable and reproduceable at play.

The ability to control and strengthen particular "mental frequencies" and increase the efficacy of exerting your will on the world around you.

When you're sleepy and distracted and ninjas suddenly appear you need to switch into kick-ass mode immediately. A well developed Shen can do that.

but it sounds very cool what you're finding.

On the one hand yes, on the other it's been there and I've been doing it all along so it seems almost basic and fundamental.

[cloudz]

To ground "emptiness" back to MA

I know that SLT mentioned it, and it pops up here and there, so let's ask the question...

To anyone and everyone, what is this emptiness?

My experience of it in MA - manifested- results in Wu Wei
Doing without doing: no thinking, no yi
Just spontaneous action, in/at the moment you have no idea where that came from, what you did even ?
Perhaps analogous to flow state in this Context

It’s where the magic happens

[Appledog]

To ground "emptiness" back to MA

I know that SLT mentioned it, and it pops up here and there, so let's ask the question...

To anyone and everyone, what is this emptiness?

My experience of it in MA - manifested- results in Wu Wei
Doing without doing: no thinking, no yi
Just spontaneous action, in/at the moment you have no idea where that came from, what you did even ?
Perhaps analogous to flow state in this Context

It’s where the magic happens

Right, so if someone attacks you from behind while you are taking a leak, the shen affects whether or not you end up killing them or just knocking them back?

But it's not about your state of mind per se?

[origami_itto]

Right, so if someone attacks you from behind while you are taking a leak, the shen affects whether or not you end up killing them or just knocking them back?

But it's not about your state of mind per se?

That's sort of a sticking point in the theory for me, trying to sort out Shen from Xin

Like my impulse is to say that, perhaps, cultivated Shen may be what allows you to respond skillfully, but Xin colors the form of the response. To kill or knock back.

Tying that into the original question, the nature of the mind set held during cultivation affects your own default posture and could be the determining factor in which outcome you choose.

So we train Wu wei, but at a certain point there must be an intention. We are faced with a situation and respond with something, even if that is to do nothing but yield.

[cloudz]

was answering about emptiness specifically not shen.

[windwalker]

Lots of writing no doing....

Why not post a clip of what's being written about

[origami_itto]

Not much to see on video. We're talking about the results of meditation.

May as well post a video of taking a vitamin

[origami_itto]

And of course the more I think about things the more I remember and discover.

“The form is like that of a falcon about to seize a rabbit,
and the Shen is like that of a cat about to catch a rat.”

I may be mistaken but I would bet the word translated as form there is Xin.

[windwalker]

Not much to see on video. We're talking about the results of meditation.

May as well post a video of taking a vitamin

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paYmVPy8z08




Those selling "vitamins" most of the time show "results of taking them, vs not taking them"

汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan
Translated by Richard Man,
http://facebook.com/groups/IMA.LiteraryTradition

神 (Shen) ­ Spirit as in spirited. Also mean god / spirit in general usage but usually not in martial arts unless referring to spiritualism.
Harmonizing Shen, Yi and Qi is the core practice of Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan.

神明 (Shen Ming) ­ Supreme understanding. While Shen is usually translated as god or spirit, this term generally does not have any spiritual connotation.
Some translators translate this as “spiritual illumination” which in this translator’s opinion, is 不失之毫塵，差以千里 (off by a few inches and end up a thousand miles away).