The Myth of the Frail Old Man

[qiphlow]

But there's also a high level of refinement that enables them to do things without employing as much of that physical fitness as younger (less skilled) people.

i think you've hit the nail on the head, here.

[DeusTrismegistus]

I am raising the question because based on my experience so far, I haven't seen any old fighting masters (age 65+) without an excellent level of physical fitness for their age. Yet there are people who say that their masters find lifting a bowling ball and carrying a bag of grocery difficult, but can still kick ass.

My White Crane teacher is 90 years old, but looks 20 years younger than his actual age. When he does Babulien (our version of Sanchin,) his ab becomes so hard that I feel like I am touching a piece of rock when I put my hand on it. He can still put his arm out and allow me to push as hard as I can sideway without budging an inch.

When my Bagua grandteacher was in his 80s, he could still climb trees and jump over fences with ease. His fingers were so strong that he could stick the middle and index finger out in a V shape and challenge people to squeeze them together.

My own Bagua teacher, who's 57 this year, can still run faster, jump higher, bend lower, and lift heavier objects than I can. (I am not even half his age.) One time we were at a friend's office helping out with some heavy boxes, there was one so heavy that I couldn't even get it off the ground. He came over, picked it up like it was nothing, and walked all the way to the car parked outside without breaking any sweat.

If you have ever seen Daniel Weng at a demonstration or seminar you might now how these myths get started. He gets up from his chair, he looks like he is really stiff, he will make some small bending and stretching motions, he really plays it up, then he throws you around like you are nothing.

When I was 16 my teacher had a 68 year old student who could whip my ass. At 16 I was 5'10 and 185lbs. Superior skill is like a trump card, as long as you maintain the capability to use it. Otherwise its like having a rocket but no rocket launcher. I think the myths come froma combination of older men really being able to beat the tar out of younger more athletic people, and them playing up their old age.

[johnwang]

But there's also a high level of refinement that enables them to do things without employing as much of that physical fitness as younger (less skilled) people.

You are talking about "borrowing force". Of course a "less skilled" guy runs toward you with full speed, and all you need to do is to get out of his way then he will fall off clip or hit his head on the wall and die. How often can that happen? IMO, the older that you are the more important that you have to maintain your Gong Li (ability or strength) because you can't depend on timing and borrowing force during your old age. if a young fighter just jumps around you and refuse to make any commitment then what will you do then?

[Dmitri]

Stand and wait for him to wear himself out?

[Josealb]

One thing that i heard my teacher say once, is that allot of martial artists in china (his generation) liked to act all puffy and powerful when they felt sick or weak, and when they were the picture of health and could do anything, acted weak and fragile.

Basically play sheep when in reality youre a wolf. Makes sense.

[jafc]

again, I have tremendous respect for the veterans & older masters of all styles. It is routine to see them move better & in better health than many similarly aged people & frequently than people younger than they.

It is quite another thing to ask Helio Gracie at 92 to roll with a 29 yr old who is trying to hurt him & do well. Truthfully, he will likely surprise you at how well he handles himself but, at 92, he is very likely to get injured easily. It would not really be fair to ask & all of us would kill the 29 yr old kid who was disrespectful enough to take the challenge.

I think much of the myth has to do with the deception factor - not a "frail" as they look.

[Franklin]

i heard this story second hand so i am not sure about the age but it must have been when he was in his 70 or 80s

Ark Wong had just finished grocery shopping and went out to his car where a couple of young men decided that they were going to rob him... he tried to talk them out of it then had to me more persuasive

one of the young guys after he got out of the hospital took him to court

Ark Wong's defense was- "i'm just an old man"

he won the case




here he is in vice squad
from what i heard this scene was improvised as in he just did his thing-
he does look genuinely happy though




Franklin

[Strange]

"....he looks like he is really stiff, he will make some small bending and stretching motions, he really plays it up,...."
tee hee

i know for a fact that my teacher will always kick my ass.
maybe its cos you're young but in pieces, i'm old but all in one
i think. cheers, S.

[Jake]

I know, have known, and have met some old men who can/could kick some seriously major fucking ass.

Even some of the old guys in my (kung fu) family where killing people in the jungles over in Vietnam even before I was born.

They came back and never stopped training. They know what it's like to really fight.... to kill... with one's bare hands.

A lot of people talk about "intention"...

These guys know what that *really* means.

Can some old guys kick ass???

Talk to me after you wake up in the hospital wondering what the fuck your name is.

[bruce]

My White Crane teacher is 90 years old, but looks 20 years younger than his actual age.

that is one example of mastering life.

[C.J.Wang]

If you have ever seen Daniel Weng at a demonstration or seminar you might now how these myths get started. He gets up from his chair, he looks like he is really stiff, he will make some small bending and stretching motions, he really plays it up, then he throws you around like you are nothing.
.

I actually Master Weng in person once and had a picture taken with him in Taiwan back in 2004 (or 3) when he came to promote his "aerobic Taiji." Didn't get to see him demonstrate any SC though.

[Peacedog]

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[LaPointe]

if you don't believe that a man who is 90 years old who has been practicing IMA for 70 or so years can take a younger challenger, why are you in the game?

[BillyK]

old age and treachery will always overcome youth and speed. if you fight your whole life then you have enough tricks in your sleeve that younger guys don't know of, your neuromuscular system is hardwired for your style, etc. these are all advantages a younger guy with less training will not have.
it comes down to this: the old guy will already have seen everything the younger guy can throw at him. the same isn't necessarily true vice-versa.

i'm not that old, but even the few years i have on the young wild guys who i usually end up fighting freeze up in some situations because they aren't accustomed to them.

[TaoJoannes]

Master Liang reportedly knocked down rude orderlys at the nursing home when he was over 100 years old. Of course, these were always interpreted as strange accidents by the strong young gentlemen in question.