Blending western equipment

[everything]

One can cut up car springs, weld the ends together making "iron rings". Much cheaper then buying the brass ones...
Need to make sure the welds are grinded down, otherwise they can rip the skin...don't ask me how I know

ha this sounds a bit too difficult for my lack of "shop" skills, and a bit too painful if you get it wrong

[wayne hansen]

The lama blocks are very different to use to KB
I practiced the six strength kune with them and taught to my students who had no fighting background

[Quigga]

I would say as long as you can get the same or very similar feeling in weight-assisted practice as in solo weight-free exercise, you're good.

IMO it's about transforming the body to such a state that only Jin is being used. All the Li needs to be converted to Jin. Once it's done you can't really move in a 'wrong' way without consciously trying and struggling - even then, it may not be possible anymore.

When you add chocolate to a neutral ice cream base it's hard to say that it's the same as vanilla just cause the texture or base flavor is the same.

Popular tools are:

- regular bodyweight only Jibengung
-> which for me seems enough. Include dragon squat, hand stand walking and pushups, one armed stuff. All done with the same feeling of Sung and building Jin. Even more: jump work, Saltos, flying kicks, turning and spinning stuff.
How to train pulling? Fa Jin is strength training if done properly... Add compression for the bones and circular movement for joints...

I still have a lot of work to do in that direction

Small 0,5 to 1,5kg wooden clubs, ball and spheres of various sizes, pole shaking, weapons training.

Don't forget just going for a swim or run with some internal awareness. Or a lot, depending on how and what you want to train
Diving, Pranayama, construction work,...manual labor. Or moving people around like I did as a nurse for the elderly. That was excellent push hands.

Mark Ramus likes bouncy stuff. Big gymnastics ball, rebounder or trampoline. Adam says to give up all external training - which I would say is just saying do only that which helps convert Li into Jin. Mikhail says to let go of all tension, to find a configuration of the body that allows for no tension in all parts of it - that means it includes both sinking and rising in one system. My own teachers say to keep yourself stretched between Heaven and Earth throughout the day, but the two have radically different body structure and application style.

Equipment filled with water is also cool. Or doing Sung training in actual bodies of water. Riding the bicycle also counts...

It's the feeling first that's important. Obviously struggling, effort, muscle failure, sweat, etc are part of traditional training. If you can't maintain correct internal feeling during strenuous solo training, forget about application.

But when all you do internally is tense up and squeeze that's all you're going to get. Not bad and can take you far, but then why train IMA if the end result would be the same as going to the gym?

[windwalker]

For clarity

My post reflected types of training I did long ago.....not related to taiji.
All CMA is internal coming from a culture that makes this distinction.

The expressions of it varies among what are called external and internal practices, and methods of usage based on them...

In my own practices once a certain level is reached the reasons why the distinctions are made and the incompatibility between the training is quite clear.
Those just starting the practice haven't built the foundation yet that would enable them to really see and understand the distinction. it's quite easy to be lead
off the path thinking that one is developing something useful towards their practice.




Mentioned some earlier practices that others commented on that some might find useful for what they do.

With the caveat, that they'er not something i would recommend for those following the methods I follow
or other similar methods.

[Quigga]

By the way, I found your post about keeping Shen inside or outside to be quite helpful. For a long time I wasn't aware that this is a part of practice I can control, yet I did it anyway without knowing what I was doing. So that helps clear things up.

[origami_itto]

I would say as long as you can get the same or very similar feeling in weight-assisted practice as in solo weight-free exercise, you're good.

IMO it's about transforming the body to such a state that only Jin is being used. All the Li needs to be converted to Jin. Once it's done you can't really move in a 'wrong' way without consciously trying and struggling - even then, it may not be possible anymore.

I believe that's the key and it echoes what I've gotten from folks who's opinion I actually respect due to the skill and wu de they demonstrate.

Other people don't understand the difference between the engine that powers Taijiquan and any old kind of physical movement. Using the muscles the wrong way 100% leads to the wrong kind of development and keeps you away from authentic Taijiquan.

But like you're saying, once you've got the proper base conditioning, then you can speed things up by introducing resistance and it becomes difficult to do it wrong unless you do it intentionally wrong.

[everything]

once a certain level is reached the reasons why the distinctions are made and the incompatibility between the training is quite clear.
Those just starting the practice haven't built the foundation yet that would enable them to really see and understand the distinction. it's quite easy to be lead
off the path thinking that one is developing something useful towards their practice.

Still in hoping-to-build foundation mode, so this is the kind of warning/distinction that I want to heed. For example, if someone were to push on my arm incidentally while playing sports, I don't think I'd "fang song". I wouldn't push back or totally tense up. I most likely use some small amount of tension ("li") to redirect. I'd call that use 10lbs to deflect 20lbs. Nothing to do with taiji skills except it might look "roll-back" ish superficially. It's useful, but I don't want to train myself to use 11lbs to deflect the 20lbs. Nor am I saying I'm simply going to reduce it to 9lbs. Not having built a foundation, I can still see how that might cause an issue with my learning. Some may prefer to go in some other direction in their practice.

[windwalker]

Still in hoping-to-build foundation mode, so this is the kind of warning/distinction that I want to heed. For example, if someone were to push on my arm incidentally while playing sports, I don't think I'd "fang song". I wouldn't push back or totally tense up. I most likely use some small amount of tension ("li") to redirect. I'd call that use 10lbs to deflect 20lbs. Nothing to do with taiji skills except it might look "roll-back" ish superficially. It's useful, but I don't want to train myself to use 11lbs to deflect the 20lbs. Nor am I saying I'm simply going to reduce it to 9lbs. Not having built a foundation, I can still see how that might cause an issue with my learning. Some may prefer to go in some other direction in their practice.

maybe another way of looking at it...

If you achieved central equilibrium, they would probably be bounced out by their own actions with you having to do nothing.

Just by standing...central equilibrium, means that any and all parts are equal from the center.....nothing to do with "tension" or "fan song"

although what "fan song " allows to happen is an over all homogeneity of tension between all parts throughout the body....

What you've mentioned while based on central equilibrium, has more to do with the ability to listen, neutralize, and change...

[cloudz]

Nothing against equipment, I've just found myself moving away from it generally.
Best thing for me was getting into GMB programs, and through that have also added more calisthenics and gymnastic type work. Handstand/ Pistols/ L-sits being good examples.

For me,
Full stop the best all round bang for your buck training is Locomotion/ animal flow, which covers strength, mobility and motor control. And guess what you can do it super slow (and or hold poses) too if you want.

experiment though, it's worthwhile. the bands are interesting and you can play with the stretch/store/ release bowing mechanics.

the kettlebell is a funny one in some regard you can get that sense of powering through/from the centre to the extremities. but overall I find it a bit limited in terms of range of motion.

the other one i didn't really find it challenging enough overall, keeping balance while pulling on those bands got boring super quick.

at some point If thinking in terms of bulking/ max strength lifting.. for that I'd probably turn to dumbbells for home.
more convenient and flexible than barbells and overall I'd give them a small edge over the kettlebell.

The other one I've found useful is the medicine ball, had a 10kg rubber one and did chen style heavy ball exercises with it. so with that you can do silk reeling, type movements for example and (physical) dantien work. really targets the torso, waist.

I guess in terms of taiji and possibly tradition - heavy ball then is the pick. if not weapons like spear - the daddy in terms of taiji and tcma I would have thought. having tried various staffs and pole trainings, meh. like the rest I'm at a take it or leave it with all training equipment, all i really need is my body weight, gravity, surfaces and bodies if they are available. and a heavy bag at home for hitting. done.

grappling dummies are also good for picking up and throwing around etc.. sadly mines been gathering dust.

[everything]

Still in hoping-to-build foundation mode, so this is the kind of warning/distinction that I want to heed. For example, if someone were to push on my arm incidentally while playing sports, I don't think I'd "fang song". I wouldn't push back or totally tense up. I most likely use some small amount of tension ("li") to redirect. I'd call that use 10lbs to deflect 20lbs. Nothing to do with taiji skills except it might look "roll-back" ish superficially. It's useful, but I don't want to train myself to use 11lbs to deflect the 20lbs. Nor am I saying I'm simply going to reduce it to 9lbs. Not having built a foundation, I can still see how that might cause an issue with my learning. Some may prefer to go in some other direction in their practice.

maybe another way of looking at it...

If you achieved central equilibrium, they would probably be bounced out by their own actions with you having to do nothing.

Just by standing...central equilibrium, means that any and all parts are equal from the center.....nothing to do with "tension" or "fan song"

although what "fan song " allows to happen is an over all homogeneity of tension between all parts throughout the body....

What you've mentioned while based on central equilibrium, has more to do with the ability to listen, neutralize, and change...

hmmmm, that's very, very interesting, thanks. "homogeneity of tension" is a really helpful phrase for me.

imagining this scenario, I can feel my forearm tense locally. It's already moved me away from homogeneity of tension. it "wants" to sort of extend (using local strength, just in a different direction than directly against).

sometimes in this sports (football/soccer) context, we spin to shield the ball. in doing that, the "yi" is focused on this move. I spun. The defender came to sort of push but fell down when he kind of pushed into my turning move. I was "listening" and "changing", but I didn't want to produce any effect on him other than keeping him away from what I was trying to do. For me, it seemed an accident of good timing. No yi or qi or Jin “magic”. Doing by non-doing. If you asked me to "do", nothing would've happened. Probably had homogeneity of tension, though, so hmm.

[cloudz]

oh..

how can a forget the good old balance ball.

great for rolling around on - you can do some exercise on it too.
for taiji i experimented putting it against the wall.
there's something there.

lacking practice partners, why not, it's something.

[windwalker]

I was "listening" and "changing", but I didn't want to produce any effect on him other than keeping him away from what I was trying to do.
Probably had homogeneity of tension, though, so hmm.

There is an inner and outer "frame" once outside of this in most cases Central equilibrium is lost.
Taiji practice spends a lot of time developing, and defining the distinctions between these two.

There is a balance point between them....

[Bhassler]

Using the muscles the wrong way 100% leads to the wrong kind of development and keeps you away from authentic Taijiquan.

No. Mindless habit only forms when you do things repetitively without awareness. If you move with awareness you can do what you want, and those big, strong muscles you built doing "brute" exercise will still be just as able to power your fancy kung fu jin that you've practiced, except more powerfully. If you're moving without awareness, then chances are your gongfu sucks, anyways, so you might as well be strong to compensate. The real limitation is time and ability to recover, so like anything else, you have to understand what your goals are and choose accordingly.

[everything]

I was "listening" and "changing", but I didn't want to produce any effect on him other than keeping him away from what I was trying to do.
Probably had homogeneity of tension, though, so hmm.

There is an inner and outer "frame" once outside of this in most cases Central equilibrium is lost.
Taiji practice spends a lot of time developing, and defining the distinctions between these two.

There is a balance point between them....

this is a really helpful way for me to think about it. Perhaps I had an outer frame by happenstance. I can't say I can have an inner frame or understand your comment on balance. Hmm... a good clue for me, though, I think.....

[windwalker]

Using the muscles the wrong way 100% leads to the wrong kind of development and keeps you away from authentic Taijiquan.

No. Mindless habit only forms when you do things repetitively without awareness. If you move with awareness you can do what you want, and those big, strong muscles you built doing "brute" exercise will still be just as able to power your fancy kung fu jin that you've practiced, except more powerfully. If you're moving without awareness, then chances are your gongfu sucks, anyways, so you might as well be strong to compensate. The real limitation is time and ability to recover, so like anything else, you have to understand what your goals are and choose accordingly.

good post.

Some might call it separating yin from the yang

汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan
Translated by Richard Man,
http://facebook.com/groups/IMA.LiteraryTradition


"意氣為君，骨肉為臣"。意氣和骨肉，不是半斤八兩(過去的秤16 兩為一斤) ，不是"平起平坐"的 關係。意氣是統治者、領導者、支配者;骨肉是被統治者、領導者、被支配者。
Yi and Qi are the most important (君 ­ Emperor), bones and muscles are secondary (臣 ­ minister). Yi, Qi and bones and muscles do not have the same roles, and do not have equal relationship. Yi and Qi are the ruler, leader, and commander.

The bones and muscles listen to the ruler and leader, and follow the commands. { Translator: In Chinese, an emperor gives the command, the ministers carries out the task. The emperor must trust the ministers and not micromanage, and the ministers must not do outside of the emperor's wishes. }

Very difficult to do if a lot of the training time is spent on developing the connection between the mind and body directly, as in some of the exercises mentioned.

Internal work, is predicated on developing and understanding the "yi-qi" using these directly with the body acting as conductor, instead of as a medium they act on.

The interacting are with the other persons "yi-qi". not on their body, which must follow the results of the interactions .

Could be why many people question the demos showing this not understanding what's being acted on and why the people in the demos react as they do.