Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:35 pm

windwalker wrote::)

good then you've been judged, and can judge
others based on your experience.

Internal work, practices are the same.

Based on experience and depth one should be able to see
quite clearly what accords with their own practices or experience

For those not having it,,,,how would they be able to know :P


I don't know what to say to that but I'll take it and see what it does with me :)
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:55 pm

Just keep in mind that there is an actual propreciaptive map... Or just physical feeling map of your body in your head

That map, drawing on that map, keeping trace / taking note / relaxed observing of things appearing disappearing, witnessing movement takes a lot of brain power research studies have shown

The Earth and Sky can be used to make that map much bigger and detailed, as you make yourself a channel for art beauty of Creation

Earth is providing (and that itself is a big word) the canvas, Sky is the Willful Hand, Human is the paintbrush. Making impactful, meaningful contributions is the essence of an artist. Your picture will be remembered, so brush accordingly
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:56 pm

I just like sharing and talking, that's all there is to it :-)
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby yeniseri on Sun May 01, 2022 11:16 pm

Quigga wrote:Depending on your viewpoint, the cultivation of the legs is either a basic firs step externally - requirements being full lotus, all splits, leg behind your head,... As much as your legs can handle before starting serious energy practice.
You may run into the same slow learning effect as in Hermetics if all you do is focus on mastering one exercise first instead of working synergistically with your strengths.


From yangsheng concept and principle and basic wellness, the legs are the root and when the root is destroyed (not developed, ignored, etc) the rest of the (upper) body will deteriorate and the rest will be "history"!
From the point of view of the legs, it is a indispensibe "foundation" as a thing that needs to be develped for its own sake, which in turn allows for better musculoskeletal functioning.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby windwalker on Mon May 02, 2022 8:57 am

johnwang wrote:In another thread, someone said that punch can be internal, but kick has to be external? Do you agree on this?

My question is both arm and leg are all part of our body.
How can leg be treated differently from the arm when the term "internal' is used?

What's your thought on this?


The basic question a misunderstanding of what "internal" is ,
how it's developed and works.

"Developed"

meaning to use a process directly outside of the normal way, experience
to enhance "inner" processes by which it is said to work within the body..

Its opposite :P


Don't move the body, arm or leg.

Move the mind...as though you were moving the body...

Once you can feel as though the body, arm or leg is being moved without moving. :o

You can then follow this feeling with movement. :)
Last edited by windwalker on Mon May 02, 2022 10:20 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby origami_itto on Mon May 02, 2022 9:06 am

johnwang wrote:
origami_itto wrote:That's because it's bad logic. Of course it won't make sense

But someone said, "the kick, that external thing ...".

I didn't catch that, so couldn't speak to the context or intent.
Internal or external I don't care about.
I care about how the movement is produced. Does it represent pulling silk?
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby D_Glenn on Mon May 02, 2022 10:09 am

I do a variation of #2 only I walk while trying to squat down, or bending more at the knees. And I walk with one arm held above my head, while the other is stretched out to the side. Do that for 5 minutes and then switch my arms around, and doing some striking combos in between the switch. And Instead of walking in a straight line I walk around in a circle. And because I would look like a freak doing it out in public I walk in a 5 foot diameter so that I can do it inside my house.

First 10 minutes I feel weak and lazy.
10-30 minutes I feel strong and invigorated.
40-60 minutes I feel calm, relaxed and fluid.


.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Mon May 02, 2022 10:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby D_Glenn on Mon May 02, 2022 10:22 am

A kick can be internal, but it’s difficult. First you have to be able to use the ‘Bo Lang Jin’ and ‘Fan Lang Jin’ (Crashing and Reversing Wave Movements of your spine and sacrum) to add internal power to your hand strikes and throws. Then you need to learn to do that while standing on one foot. And then start trying to do the abrupt movements of your Spine to time with the landing of the kick. There are hand movements that accompany the kicks. But you have to imagine that your hand is holding onto something solid when you’re practicing solo. A side kick uses the ‘Fan Lang’ movement, while front kicks make use of the ‘Bo Lang’ movements.

EDIT— honestly though, the very first thing you need to do is meet someone who can do internal kicking, and do it really really well. And then observe and feel the application of the kick, just so you can know that it is humanly possible. I happened to have met a Chinese guy who has dedicated his entire life to the practice of internal martial arts. His first priority though, is can it be used in a fight, which, through his detailed, strict and dedication to practice, he can employ internal kicking in a fight. So the context is there and you know that he’s not just doing parlor tricks.

.
Last edited by D_Glenn on Mon May 02, 2022 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby robert on Mon May 02, 2022 11:12 am

duplicate.
Last edited by robert on Mon May 02, 2022 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
The method of practicing this boxing art is nothing more than opening and closing, passive and active. The subtlety of the art is based entirely upon their alternations. Chen Xin
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby robert on Mon May 02, 2022 11:23 am

johnwang wrote:My queswtion is when I walk 3 miles, I want to train "internal kick". How should I do it?

The Taiji Classics say -

其根在脚。發於腿。主宰於腰。形於手指。

Its roots are in the feet. Originates from the legs. Governed by the yao (waist). Expressed in the fingers.

The yao is the ruler; use the yao.

Start with stepping. In China taIji, xingyi, and bagua all have stepping drills. In Chen taiji the stepping drill I was taught is based on Step Three Times from laojia yilu.





When doing stepping drills we don't circle the arms, they are either up in front of the chest holding a ball or down by the sides. Note that the weight does not shift back also, note the use of the yao. Normally we step forward some distance, say twenty steps, and then step backwards. Alot can be said about stepping drills. I also do a kick drill. They're all slap kicks with the arms up and out. The first one is straight up and forward, the next is like a lotus kick, up the front and back, and the last kick is the reverse of a lotus, from back to front. This can be done stationary or stepping.

There used to be videos of Chen Bing teaching stepping drills on 56.com. I looked at the site and didn't see a way to search any more ...
Last edited by robert on Mon May 02, 2022 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Doc Stier on Mon May 02, 2022 11:39 am

At the end of the day, the health benefits derived from any personal exercise regimen will be the result of improving the internal circulation of blood and intrinsic energy, the elimination of blockages or impediments to same, and the subsequent optimization of internal organ functions, more than from merely strengthening bones, muscles, tendons and ligaments.

Exercises like TCC, Hatha Yoga, Tao-Yin, etc, typically focus on these internal factors in ways that primarily external exercises like weight lifting, aerobic exercises, running, biking, swimming, etc, usually don't. Ditto for training focused mostly on competitive athletic performance like boxing, wrestling, MMA, gymnastics, and so forth, in which the development of external strength, speed, power, and other athletic physical attributes generally has a higher training priority than developing internal physiological health does.

Thus, by comparison, it is not at all unusual for people who were world class amateur or professional athletes in any sport as young people to be in no better health as elderly people than those who were never good athletes in younger years, and perhaps never maintained any real, viable level of physical fitness throughout their lifetime beyond the PE classes of their school years.

I certainly don't mean to say that regularly engaging in any kind of personal physical fitness program is without potential overall health benefits, but am simply saying that acquiring and maintaining such results as we age is more probable when using a personal training program focused on exercises with a better record of producing optimum internal health benefits, as witnessed in the experience of many generations of serious practitioners to date.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby johnwang on Mon May 02, 2022 3:04 pm

D_Glenn wrote:1. First 10 minutes I feel weak and lazy.
2. 10-30 minutes I feel strong and invigorated.
3. 40-60 minutes I feel calm, relaxed and fluid.

This is the beauty of the workout. For those who doesn't workout daily, they can't enjoy 2 and 3.

If I don't do my kick/puncch when walking, I like to walk 5 miles, 8 miles, or even 10 miles. 8 miles is my favor. I strongly believe that

during the

- 1st 4 miles, my body starts to detect problems.
- 2nd 4 miles, my body starts to fix problems.
I'm still allergic to "push".
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