Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby johnwang on Sun May 01, 2022 7:47 pm

In another thread, someone said that punch can be internal, but kick has to be external? Do you agree on this?

My question is both arm and leg are all part of our body. How can leg be treated differently from the arm when the term "internal' is used?

What's your thought on this?
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 8:57 pm

Depending on your viewpoint, the cultivation of the legs is either a basic firs step externally - requirements being full lotus, all splits, leg behind your head,... As much as your legs can handle before starting serious energy practice.

You may run into the same slow learning effect as in Hermetics if all you do is focus on mastering one exercise first instead of working synergistically with your strengths.

Internally, the letting go and making empty of the legs, liberating that part of yourself... The legs come rather late in this other kind of practice. It includes knowing why and how the worldview you hold deep inside is projected / stabilized onto the outside world. Of course this always involves reflection of the self, gaining self knowledge and further understanding of how one's worldview was formed.

The lessons here can be painful, but that is in part just because the legs can channel so much energy. The other part would be that if you want to think of the body in terms of a metaphysical map... Every part has it's story and purpose and associated lessons.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 8:58 pm

I obviously can't do the splits or full lotus yet, but hope to get there in the next few years
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 9:02 pm

And a kick is a kick... We're talking a lot about movement... In movement this, the movement results from this, the movement does that...

But stillness is the other 50

So focus on that 50 stillness and let the other 50 rise, shape, fill out, naturally form

Movement comes from stillness they said

And if you meditate and can't kick anymore as a result, you're doing it wrong lol! :D
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby johnwang on Sun May 01, 2022 9:11 pm

Quigga wrote:Depending on your viewpoint,

My question is when I walk 3 miles and repeat my

- Taiji brush knee, I'm doing internal.
- Taiji lotus kick, sudently I'm doing external.

This logic just make no sense to me.



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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby origami_itto on Sun May 01, 2022 9:26 pm

johnwang wrote:
Quigga wrote:Depending on your viewpoint,

My question is when I walk 3 miles and repeat my

- Taiji brush knee, I'm doing internal.
- Taiji lotus kick, sudently I'm doing external.

This logic just make no sense to me.


That's because it's bad logic. Of course it won't make sense
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 9:35 pm

John, I guess there was a time where it was enough to see someone doing Brush Knee and saying yup, he's doing Tai Chi

I can put wings on my back with super glue and still won't fly...

Don't only judge people based on what you can see, they said

In researching how movement is produced by using feeling inside, outside, combined, the look of the move is secondary. It happens as a reaction to what is going on somewhere else.

A spring or source in the mountains doesn't care how the rivers and stuff flow like down below

(I'm but a tiny crack in a rock releasing water :D ...)

But we each have our own version of paradise when visualizing a perfect mountain vacation near original water
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby johnwang on Sun May 01, 2022 9:38 pm

origami_itto wrote:That's because it's bad logic. Of course it won't make sense

But someone said, "the kick, that external thing ...".
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby everything on Sun May 01, 2022 9:42 pm

Quigga wrote:
Internally, the letting go and making empty of the legs, liberating that part of yourself... The legs come rather late in this other kind of practice..


Starting to see this. “Something” is starting, though.

The legs are more difficult to work with.

I don’t mean something like it’s harder to kick a ball than hit a ball, although that seems true as well.

If one doesn’t put in the work, this won’t make sense.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby windwalker on Sun May 01, 2022 9:44 pm

Quigga wrote:John, I guess there was a time where it was enough to see someone doing Brush Knee and saying yup, he's doing Tai Chi

I can put wings on my back with super glue and still won't fly...

Don't only judge people based on what you can see, they said

In researching how movement is produced by using feeling inside, outside, combined, the look of the move is secondary. It happens as a reaction to what is going on somewhere else.

A spring or source in the mountains doesn't care how the rivers and stuff flow like down below

(I'm but a tiny crack in a rock releasing water :D ...)

But we each have our own version of paradise when visualizing a perfect mountain vacation near original water



Wondering if you've ever judged or completed in any type of MA events...

:)

Everyone has an internal dialogue that accords with their experience, depth of practice.

The lens by which one views things through.....

Recently you posted a clip...
others expressing what they saw and noted in it...
Last edited by windwalker on Sun May 01, 2022 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby johnwang on Sun May 01, 2022 10:00 pm

Quigga wrote:I can put wings on my back with super glue and still won't fly...

My queswtion is when I walk 3 miles, I want to train "internal kick". How should I do it?
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:19 pm

windwalker wrote:
Quigga wrote:John, I guess there was a time where it was enough to see someone doing Brush Knee and saying yup, he's doing Tai Chi

I can put wings on my back with super glue and still won't fly...

Don't only judge people based on what you can see, they said

In researching how movement is produced by using feeling inside, outside, combined, the look of the move is secondary. It happens as a reaction to what is going on somewhere else.

A spring or source in the mountains doesn't care how the rivers and stuff flow like down below

(I'm but a tiny crack in a rock releasing water :D ...)

But we each have our own version of paradise when visualizing a perfect mountain vacation near original water



Wondering if you've ever judged or completed in any type of MA events...

:)

Everyone has an internal dialogue that accords with their experience, depth of practice.

The lens by which one views things through.....

Recently you posted a clip...
others expressing what they saw and noted in it...



My practice is an ongoing evolutionary process, as is my personality from day to day life. So mistakes will be made, unfinished versions presented, it's a play in progress

I had one fight in a ring, combined ruleset of Kick and Thai
Not all knees and elbows were allowed, that was it as far as notable differences
5 rounds, it's already 8 years ago or so
I only wore Thai shorts, he something like a Judo suit but in red so that worked in my favor
Boxing gloves and shin guards were used
He was a couple years older with street experience
I remember my punches feeling so weak, yet they seem to have had some effect

Primarily I focused on using low kicks on his front left leg, as he didn't change stances
While remembering not to get stuck in corner, using the ropes
In the end he kind of collapsed and I got a good couple free shots on his abdomen
I should note he was a better boxer than me and I took a few hits that left me disoriented

The fight was called a draw, as he was a closer student to the head of MA organization at the time than me. Or so it was hinted to me by others

Other than that, I was in China performing alongside my Kung Fu family. A Tai Chi form. It was pretty cool. Actually I had lots of incredible experience over there in the 2 weeks. Should nourish my heart with thst

Also fun watching all the others practice at the tournament

And besides that, the time spent with my uncle who is an active mercenary was quite enlightening in some aspects, not saying that to demean myself

When I noticed that in his knife practice he actually wanted to kill me or rather satisfy an urge for violence it clicked for me

The assumption in knife demos is that one cut will stop the defendant, that one defending move may not break bones or permanently cripple

If you even things out on an attitude level while in battle or confrontation, things start to make a lot more sense and become easier
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:22 pm

Others see what they see. I can hardly replace their eyes by force

*Insert Itachi Uchiha pic*
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby windwalker on Sun May 01, 2022 10:25 pm

:)

good then you've been judged, and can judge
others based on your experience.

Internal work, practices are the same.

Based on experience and depth one should be able to see
quite clearly what accords with their own practices or experience

For those not having it,,,,how would they be able to know :P
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Re: Which workout will give you better health benefit?

Postby Quigga on Sun May 01, 2022 10:32 pm

johnwang wrote:
Quigga wrote:I can put wings on my back with super glue and still won't fly...

My queswtion is when I walk 3 miles, I want to train "internal kick". How should I do it?



That's a lot like asking what do I want my house to look like

What qualities should it have
Where do I place plumbing, wiring, floors, what materials do I use, electrical appliances, generators, maintenance crew, decorations,...

You can practice like I did when doing Kick Thai
Close your eyes and practice jab, uppercut, side hit, hook, twisting back fist, cross, elbows,... with silk reeling quality and relaxation

Tracing / tracking the movement in body and space with the mind as it unfolds is a good starting point

Becoming a spectator of the miracle that is yourself cough cough

You can practice for more cutting, sweeping, crossing, lifting, turning, stomping, unseeable-ness, sudden-ness, managing returning force into your body's own fleshbones via stretching inertia into a different punch, kick, step,...

Lightness, heaviness, saturated-ness, ground mind, autonomous walking, 7 mile step, wind walking :D

It starts with the question what do you want from internal, specifically

Generating more obvious bone breaking power is not so difficult and can be a good transition or trap, again depending on how you look at it
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