Everything is Wu De

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

Everything is Wu De

Postby Appledog on Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:29 pm

Martial arts (Tai Chi) begins with Chong Shang Wu De. Finding a teacher that has good Wu De. Then everything can be expressed by the ideals of listening to and respecting your parents.

If your teacher tells you to do something, then you have to do it; if your teacher tells you not to do something, then you shouldn't do it. Otherwise you are lying to your teachers.

If a teacher is secretive and his group is cultish it is no good. If your teacher is degenerate it is not good.

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule but I find that in general the teachers with the best Wu De have the best development and are the most adept at teaching.

Unless you think your teachers are there to deceive you (and I suppose some are), but this is all the more reason to look for Wu De first. After you can find this you can learn anything. All you need is a dream :)
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby johnwang on Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:48 pm

My long fist teacher likes to talk about Wu De. He always said it's wrong

1. to start a fight without a good reason.
2. not to start a fight if there is a good reason.

Many CMA teachers may address 1. I respect him to address 2.
Last edited by johnwang on Thu Apr 28, 2022 3:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby origami_itto on Fri Apr 29, 2022 5:20 am

My teachers would say if they tell you to do something, you can do it or not, entirely up to you, but they think it's a pretty good idea and you're paying to learn from them so do the math yourself.

If you want to get better, do what they say.

johnwang wrote:My long fist teacher likes to talk about Wu De. He always said it's wrong

1. to start a fight without a good reason.
2. not to start a fight if there is a good reason.

Many CMA teachers may address 1. I respect him to address 2.


I like that. I might give it a bit of nuance and add to not prevent a fight.

I just try to keep it simple with Master Liang's principles.

The 10 Guiding Principles of Master T.T. Liang
1. Nobody can be perfect. Take what is good and discard what is bad.

2. If I believe entirely in books, better not read books. If I relay entirely on teachers, better not have teachers.

3. To remove a mountain is easy, but to change a man’s temperament is more difficult.

4. If there is anything wrong with me, I don’t blame others, I only blame myself.

5. If I want to live longer I must learn T’ai Chi and accmoplish it both physically and mentally. To accomplish it mentally is much more difficult.

6. I must learn how to yeild, to be tactful, not to be aggressive; to lose (small loss, small gain – great loss, great gain); not to take advantage of others; to give (the more one gives the more one will have).

7. Life begins at seventy. Everything is beautiful! Health is a better of utmost importance and all the rest is secondary. Now I must find out how to enjoy excellent health in my whole life and discover the way to immortality.

8. Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

9. One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

10. To conceal the faults of others and praise their good points is the best policy.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby Bao on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:08 am

origami_itto wrote:I just try to keep it simple with Master Liang's principles.

The 10 Guiding Principles of Master T.T. Liang
1. Nobody can be perfect. Take what is good and discard what is bad.

2. If I believe entirely in books, better not read books. If I relay entirely on teachers, better not have teachers.

3. To remove a mountain is easy, but to change a man’s temperament is more difficult.

4. If there is anything wrong with me, I don’t blame others, I only blame myself.

5. If I want to live longer I must learn T’ai Chi and accomplish it both physically and mentally. To accomplish it mentally is much more difficult.

6. I must learn how to yeild, to be tactful, not to be aggressive; to lose (small loss, small gain – great loss, great gain); not to take advantage of others; to give (the more one gives the more one will have).

7. Life begins at seventy. Everything is beautiful! Health is a better of utmost importance and all the rest is secondary. Now I must find out how to enjoy excellent health in my whole life and discover the way to immortality.

8. Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

9. One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

10. To conceal the faults of others and praise their good points is the best policy.



That is a good list. Long time since I read it.


- If I believe entirely in books, better not read books. If I relay entirely on teachers, better not have teachers.

I don't believe in teachers and I don't rely on books. ...Seems I got it wrong...?


- To remove a mountain is easy, but to change a man’s temperament is more difficult.

Haven't tried removing or moving mountains, so I can't really make that comparison. But my temperament changes a lot...


- If there is anything wrong with me, I don’t blame others, I only blame myself.

That is true. But I have so many wrongs and mistakes, so it becomes very tiresome keeping up blaming myself about everything all of the time.


- ... I must learn T’ai Chi and accomplish it both physically and mentally. To accomplish it mentally is much more difficult.

I must have Tai Chi in my body first, before I can have it in my mind. So that is true I guess...


- Life begins at seventy. ...

So I am just walking around wasting my time? Ok, I guess I'll have to wait until my 70s and see... :-\


- Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

Many people are fake, cowardly and don't not make very good friends. ...IDK, but they are not worth making enemies either. I don't care really.


- One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

Agreed, it's just too tiresome to preach, regardless what you practice or not.


- To conceal the faults of others and praise their good points is the best policy.

- What good points? Like: "I see you have done a good job matching your shoes and shirt? I am not good at this, I have a hard time finding people's best points. I try to compliment women about their dresses, jewellery or whatever I can find though. They like that stuff.

---

... IDK... I don't like rules and following principles... I think those things can create a distance between yourself and your own heart and dreams, and what you actually want here in life. It's important to first learn how to understand yourself and what you want, IMO. And to accept yourself for what you are. Then you can learn to take responsibility for your actions better. And if you do so, your life will shape itself better accordingly to what you want.

Personally, I try to just learn to listen to my heart better and screwing up things less. :-[


:-\
Last edited by Bao on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:14 am

汪永泉授楊式太極拳語錄及拳照
Wang Yongquan Writings on Yang Style Tai Chi Chuan


Translated by Richard Man,
http://facebook.com/groups/IMA.LiteraryTradition



(二) 老師"訪"學生要三年,學生"訪"老師要三年
(Two) The Teacher Needs to “Study” The Student for Three Years; The Student Needs to “Visit” the Teacher for Three Years.
要學拳,必須選擇好的教拳人。看他對太極拳功夫是否有全面的理解,教練的方法是否正確, 教學態度是否良好,對學員是否負責, 等等。

To learn martial arts, you must select a teacher carefully.
He or she must have a complete understanding of Taijiquan, can teach correctly, has a good attitude, and willing to take care and work with the students.

老師"訪"(考察)學生(需)要三年;學生"訪"老師要三年。對對方的人品武德等各方面有了了解以後 ,再考慮拜師、收徒。
Therefore, a teacher needs to study a prospective student for 3 years, and the student needs to visit the teacher for 3 years.
After they can see each other’s personalities and their Wu De (martial virtue), they can then formalize the teacher ­student relationship.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=REYUpavsdBw

3:18

"come here every morning at dawn for 3 yrs, and then I'll know your serious "

Shi Ming, a student of Wang Yongquan
carried on the tradition of knowing the student before teaching
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby origami_itto on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:23 am

Bao wrote:
origami_itto wrote:I just try to keep it simple with Master Liang's principles.

The 10 Guiding Principles of Master T.T. Liang
1. Nobody can be perfect. Take what is good and discard what is bad.

2. If I believe entirely in books, better not read books. If I relay entirely on teachers, better not have teachers.

3. To remove a mountain is easy, but to change a man’s temperament is more difficult.

4. If there is anything wrong with me, I don’t blame others, I only blame myself.

5. If I want to live longer I must learn T’ai Chi and accomplish it both physically and mentally. To accomplish it mentally is much more difficult.

6. I must learn how to yeild, to be tactful, not to be aggressive; to lose (small loss, small gain – great loss, great gain); not to take advantage of others; to give (the more one gives the more one will have).

7. Life begins at seventy. Everything is beautiful! Health is a better of utmost importance and all the rest is secondary. Now I must find out how to enjoy excellent health in my whole life and discover the way to immortality.

8. Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

9. One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

10. To conceal the faults of others and praise their good points is the best policy.



That is a good list. Long time since I read it.


- If I believe entirely in books, better not read books. If I relay entirely on teachers, better not have teachers.

I don't believe in teachers and I don't rely on books. ...Seems I got it wrong...?


- To remove a mountain is easy, but to change a man’s temperament is more difficult.

Haven't tried removing or moving mountains, so I can't really make that comparison. But my temperament changes a lot...


- If there is anything wrong with me, I don’t blame others, I only blame myself.

That is true. But I have so many wrongs and mistakes, so it becomes very tiresome keeping up blaming myself about everything all of the time.


- ... I must learn T’ai Chi and accomplish it both physically and mentally. To accomplish it mentally is much more difficult.

I must have Tai Chi in my body first, before I can have it in my mind. So that is true I guess...


- Life begins at seventy. ...

So I am just walking around wasting my time? Ok, I guess I'll have to wait until my 70s and see... :-\


- Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

Many people are fake, cowardly and don't not make very good friends. ...IDK, but they are not worth making enemies either. I don't care really.


- One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

Agreed, it's just too tiresome to preach, regardless what you practice or not.


- To conceal the faults of others and praise their good points is the best policy.

- What good points? Like: "I see you have done a good job matching your shoes and shirt? I am not good at this, I have a hard time finding people's best points. I try to compliment women about their dresses, jewellery or whatever I can find though. They like that stuff.

---

... IDK... I don't like rules and following principles... I think those things can create a distance between yourself and your own heart and dreams, and what you actually want here in life. It's important to first learn how to understand yourself and what you want, IMO. And to accept yourself for what you are. Then you can learn to take responsibility for your actions better. And if you do so, your life will shape itself better accordingly to what you want.

Personally, I try to just learn to listen to my heart better and screwing up things less. :-[


:-\


That's an excellent way to look at it, thank you for sharing your perspective.
It don't mean a thing, if it ain't got that jing.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby windwalker on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:31 am

- Life begins at seventy. ...

So I am just walking around wasting my time? Ok, I guess I'll have to wait until my 70s and see... :-\


- Make one thousand friends, but don’t make one enemy.

Many people are fake, cowardly and don't not make very good friends. ...IDK, but they are not worth making enemies either. I don't care really.


- One must practice what one preaches. Otherwise it is empty talk or a bounced check.

Agreed, it's just too tiresome to preach, regardless what you practice or not.



at 70 :P

good to know, ;D

Agree about "preaching" tend to look at it more in terms of "sharing" what one finds interesting with
others who might also find it interesting, while understanding those who may not..
Last edited by windwalker on Fri Apr 29, 2022 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Everything is Wu De

Postby Doc Stier on Fri Apr 29, 2022 8:33 am

As someone who is already several years past the age of 70, I wouldn't say that life begins at 70, but enjoying the fruits of prior efforts leading up to the age of 70 has never been better. ymmv.
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