CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Discussion on the three big Chinese internals, Yiquan, Bajiquan, Piguazhang and other similar styles.

CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby salcanzonieri on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:14 pm

So, re-reading AN INTRODUCTION TO CHEN STYLE TAIJI, GENERAL EXPLANATIONS OF TAIJI BOXING FUNDAMENTALS by Chen Jifu [Zhaopi] [1930]

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.com/2019/09/01/an-introduction-to-chen-style-taiji/

When reading this section:
CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES
[This very loose poem seems to depict an early Chen Style practice routine. It is particularly significant because it quotes heavily from the posture poems in Qi Jiguang’s “Boxing Classic”, thereby providing us with a textual link between the Thirty-Two Postures and the Chen family’s art.]

I see Brennan's comment about how many of these many posture descriptions are in common with Qi JiQuang's 32 postures. but I see a load of them from the Chen Er Lu form and also
two Shaolin sources:
1 - The Shaolin 18 Louhan Gong (which was later used by the Preying Mantis people during the 1700s). A bunch of names of postures are found in this Chen list.
2 - The Shaolin Xie Quan set, which the Chen form follows in the same order, step by step. Even repeats a section at the same place in both forms, this is the set that shares the same unique postures with Chen. For example, the Chen Quan list says 玉女捧金盒。and MAIDEN CARRIES THE GOLDEN BOX and the Shaolin Xie Quan says "玉女捧金盒 (Yu Nu Peng Jin He) - Jade Lady Holds up Golden Box, same exact characters. And so on.

The Chen family papers that were examined by Tang Hao and others always mention Tai Zhu Chang Quan as the Shaolin set that Chen Lao Jia Yi Lu is derived from.
Yes, and the reason it doesn't use TZ Chang Quan names for the postural movements and instead uses Qi JiQuang's similar movements is because the TZ Chang Quan set is from the Song Dynasty and is one of the earliest forms created in Shaolin area. Hence, it doesn't use poetic flowery names for its moves, instead the names are just physical descriptions for the moves, such as Slap in the Face and Hidden Hand Punch and Hateful Foot Stomp, etc.

Also, something dumbo's like Tan Hao didn't understand. IN the Chen papers is says "If you want to know where this art comes from it is NanTang Tai Zhu".
Which, duh, Nan Tang is the nick name used for General Qi JiQuang and Tai Zhu simply means Ancestral.
So, it is saying the Qi JiGuang is the ancestor of the Chen material.

Also, the way the Song of Chen Wangting is written, with the blow by blow give and take is very similar the the famous play, about a fight that Zhang SenFang had, from that time period (or older) that uses half of its blow by blow description of the fight from Qi JiGuang's books as well. So, it seems to use the play as inspiration for the blow by blow fight sequence.
Last edited by salcanzonieri on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby GrahamB on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:46 pm

I wouldn't get too excited about these texts meaning anything.

The main body of historical writing in this book is CHEN CHANGXING’S TEN ESSENTIALS OF TAIJI BOXING which even a cursory glance will reveal to simply be the Xing Yi classics rebranded to be about Chen style. I find it astonishing that people aren't more honest about this. So the fact that there is material from General Qi in the preceding chapters isn't a surprise either...

The rest of the book are excellent historical pictures of Chen Zhaopi doing and describing his version of Chen style.

It seems rather screamingly obvious to me that this book is not a collection of original Chen style writing, but simply scooping up any available martial arts writing that they had lying around and rebranding it to be as if written by Chen Chanxing in an effort to create a legitimate literary legacy for Chen Chanxing so that he can have more authority as its claim to being the original style of Tai Chi Chuan (Taijiquan) that Yang LuChan learned. I've heard people explain this as "just the way things were done with martial arts classic writing, you ignorant fool, Graham!" but it seems to me that ignores the politics of the time. Remember, this was late in the day for Tai Chi Chuan - 1930 and well into the more modern Republican Period.

Chen style was late to the game of publishing writing about Tai Chi Chuan. This book by Chen Zhaopi was published in 1930. When you consider that copies of the "Tai Chi Classics" had been floating around since 1881...

Look at the list on Brennan Translation's main page and you see the following publication dates:

Explaining Taiji Principles by Yang Banhou dates to 1875,
For Hao Weizhen to Cherish handwritten by Li Yiyu, 1881
The Taiji Art by Song Shuming, 1908
A Study of Taiji Boxing by Sun Lutang, 1921
Taiji Boxing Postures Explained by Xu Yusheng, 1921
The Art of Taiji Boxing by Chen Weiming, 1925
Simple Introduction to Taiji Boxing by Xu Zhiyi, 1927
Taiji Sword by Chen Weiming, 1928
Taiji Boxing Photographed by Chu Minyi, 1929
Answering Questions About Taiji by Chen Weiming, 1929

All these were published earlier than anything on Chen style.

(N.B. Chen Xin's "Illustrated Explanations of Chen Family Taijiquan" was said to have been hand written and finished in 1919, but was not published until 1933)

Note: there was an absolute explosion of martial arts manual publishing going on from 1921 onwards, which would be because the Kuomintang (Chinese Nationalist Party) were on a drive to promote Chinese martial arts, particularly their version - Koushu - as a way of promoting national pride and strengthening the nation:

From Wikipedia:

"The present view of Chinese martial arts is strongly influenced by the events of the Republican Period (1912–1949). In the transition period between the fall of the Qing Dynasty as well as the turmoil of the Japanese invasion and the Chinese Civil War, Chinese martial arts became more accessible to the general public as many martial artists were encouraged to openly teach their art. At that time, some considered martial arts as a means to promote national pride and build a strong nation. As a result, many training manuals (拳譜) were published, a training academy was created, two national examinations were organized and demonstration teams traveled overseas.[24] Numerous martial arts associations were formed throughout China and in various overseas Chinese communities. The Central Guoshu Academy (Zhongyang Guoshuguan, 中央國術館) established by the National Government in 1928[25] and the Jing Wu Athletic Association (精武體育會) founded by Huo Yuanjia in 1910 are examples of organizations that promoted a systematic approach for training in Chinese martial arts.[26][27][28] A series of provincial and national competitions were organized by the Republican government starting in 1932 to promote Chinese martial arts. In 1936, at the 11th Olympic Games in Berlin, a group of Chinese martial artists demonstrated their art to an international audience for the first time.
The term kuoshu (or guoshu, 國術 meaning "national art"), rather than the colloquial term gongfu was introduced by the Kuomintang in an effort to more closely associate Chinese martial arts with national pride rather than individual accomplishment."

The publication of Chen Zhaopi's book must be seen as part of that drive and the need to "fill in the gaps" on Chen style's missing legacy. You have to wonder how much choice Chen Zhaopi had in its publication! China has never had a free press.

That's my view anyway.

It leads in the wider question of "who is the real ancestor of Taijiquan?" - a bigger subject. I don't dispute that there was a legitimate and real martial tradition Chen village before Yang LuChan arrived in Beijing in 1864(ish) - the Chen's had a reputation as bodyguards and trainers/participants in local militia. But was that "Taijiquan" or was that retrospectively added at a later date to fit an origin story? We can never know for sure.

To return to your point Sal - I don't think the similarity between Chen Zhaopi's "writing" (if you can call it that) and General Qi's writing proves anything about a direct link between the styles - that writing was being borrowed for political reasons. Equally, that doesn't disprove any theory of the art General Qi is describing being related to Chen style, but I don't think the book in question proves a link.
Last edited by GrahamB on Thu Apr 28, 2022 10:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Chai-drinking ninja.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13057
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby GrahamB on Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:06 am

I'm not a Chen stylist myself, but I find the book by Chen Ziming (1932) more interesting and the place I would look for more original content of the era if I was building some sort of case for historical links:

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... en-ziming/

I like the photos in particular - he seems to have "kung fu" in his bones.

I don't know if this video performance is reflective of Chen Ziming's "Small frame", but I quite like it, and I can see the still photo positions from the book appearing in it quite often:

Liu Jiugong (1911-1995) demonstrates Small Frame of Chen style Taijiquan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAcw0SnkZ-c
Last edited by GrahamB on Fri Apr 29, 2022 12:29 am, edited 4 times in total.
Chai-drinking ninja.
The Tai Chi Notebook
User avatar
GrahamB
Great Old One
 
Posts: 13057
Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 3:30 pm

Re: CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby salcanzonieri on Fri Apr 29, 2022 9:37 am

I saw discussion on your blog about the Chen form how old it was, or something like that. From what I could gather, there was a form from the Tong Bei Quan style that was very similar to the Chen Yi Lu, and it was already in existence during the 1500s.

In my research for my book, I saw that a Dong Cheng was the founder. Dong’s Shaolin teachers were Guo Wanqin and Zhang Wenkui, both had learned directly from Bai Yufeng and Li Sou. Dong was the founder of Tong Bi Quan (which was an amalgamation of his ideas mixed with Shaolin forms that he had learned such as Rou Quan, TZ Chang Quan, Pao Chui, and Hong Quan. All Shaolin forms that the Chen family writings credit to being their "Village Martial Art". Later, by the time he met up with Chen, Dong had mixed in the "13 Postures" from Taoist arts such as Six Harmony Spear and Hong Quan Staff (the Chen Yi Lu, like all Shaolin forms can be done with a staff with no change to the movements at all) and changed his style into Tong Bei Quan. This is back in the 1500s. I have a copy of his manual. In his middle years had some exchanges with Zhang Songxi, influencing Zhang Songxi’s boxing style, Songxi Nei Jia Quan, particularly, Zhang’s ‘Tongbei Six Roads’ and ‘Ten Section Brocade’ sets. But, Dong was most influenced himself by the ‘Thirteen Postures of Zhang Sanfeng’ (known in the area as Rou Shisan Shi - ‘Soft 13 Postures’ or Shisan Shi Rou Quan - ‘13 Postures Soft Hands’) that he learned from a practitioner named Wang Zongyue. This set is also found in Shaolin as the Luohan 13 Postures Gong (which came first? unknown).

These different Tongbei styles all originated with Dong Cheng, the creator of Tongbi quan. White Ape Tongbiquan (白猿通臂拳), Qi Family Tongbeiquan (祁氏通臂拳), Taiji Five Phases Tongbeiquan (太極五行通背拳), Four Sides Eight Directions Tongbeiquan (四面八方通背拳), and Hongdong Tongbei Coiling Fist (洪洞通背纏拳): ALL these different Tong Bei Quan are just sub-styles, variations of what Dong Cheng and others taught throughout Henan and spread to other regions (Hebei, etc.). They all come from single source. The arts that these three people learned from Dong Cheng at these different times in his life were not all the same. The Tongbi quan that he taught in his later years to Xu Shoulu was particularly different. A comparison of the manuals from the three different lines of his teaching reveals a process of continued progression and refinement. This has to do with Dong's exchanges with practitioners of the ‘Thirteen Postures’.
At some point, Dong used these 13 posture principles that he had exchanged from Wang Zhongyue to create a set of Tong Bei Rou Quan. This Tong Bei Rou Quan was derived mostly from his Shaolin Taizhu 32 Chang Quan training. Also, it was Dong who incorporated, from the Liu He Spear, the Discussion of Ten Important Points into his writings, which obviously is later found word for word in the Chen family writings. So, Dong is this source? Maybe not, as Chang Naizhou had a friendship with Chen Village's 12th generation descendant Chen Juxia and his ‘Tendon Change Classic, Chi Channeling Secret’, which was the same as the Ten Essential Points, may have been passed to the Chen Village at that point. Also, note that it is Tong Bei Quan that first used the term "Reeling" (coiling) when doing the postural movements in its forms.

Further, in 1984, a book was published in the Henan province, Shaolin Wushu, which presented a routine named ‘Xinyi Quan’ (Heart and Mind Boxing). also known as Xie Quan (Oblique Boxing). Jia Zhaoxuan declares that his family was in possession of this boxing method since one of his ancestors, Jia Shuwang, learned Shaolin Quan in the monastery. Jia Zhaoxuan explains that his ancestor had hand copied an old manuscript in the monastery that described this set. This event occurred during the reign of the Xangxi Emperor (1662-1723), around the time of Chen Wangting’s death. The set has the same sequence of techniques as Da Yi Lu (Chen Taiji first form), a lot of techniques have the same name, with numerous and definite analogies.

The ‘Boxing Song Formula’ attributed to Chen Wangting comes from the Liang Yi Tang Ben manual of Chen martial arts; it is also the only old manual that records a set popularly called the ‘13 Postures’ (13 Gong, which also can mean 13 Skills, which is the more accurate translation). Its content was an addition that was made to another old Chen manual called the Wen Xiu Tang Ben, which does not record any form called the ‘13 postures’. So it is possible that the Liang Yi Tang Ben is a later manual with additions not found in the original Chen transmission. The poem attributed to Chen Wangting is found in the Liang Yi Tang Ben and there is no other evidence to authenticate it. Another early Chen family writer is Chen Zhiming. It was he who accompanied Tang Hao and Gu Liuxin on their trip down to Chen Jia Gou for investigations into the origins. His work is thus as important as theirs in terms of evidence for the early Chen arts. In his book on the Chen family arts he quotes from the old manuals and records old song formulas, many of which are revealing.

Dong Cheng's nephew Dong BinQian, learned the Tong Bei arts and later met up with and exchanged MA material with Chen Wangting 陈王庭 (1600-1680). So, rather than a mysterious "Jiang Fa", the real person Dong BinQian brought Chen WangTing this new outside Chen village martial arts material. Dong BonQian taught the "Thirteen Postures Soft Hands Tongbei Gong" and "Thirteen Postures straight sword". In another village, Wang Bao, Wang Zhongjin learned “Thirteen Postures Soft Hands" from Bogong Wudao, and learned Liu He Qiang (Six Harmony Spear) from Dong Binqian. Wang's family book and quan pu also says, "Dong Binqian passed the art of Thirteen Postures soft hands to Wen county's Chen Wangting, and passed the art of Liu He Qiang (Six Harmony Spear) to Boai Wang Bao's Wang Zhongjin.

So, all the pieces seem to fall in place that give a good picture of the Chen Yi Lu form and where it comes from, which is a blend of the 13 Postures (whether of Taoist or Shaolin origin) and the Shaolin TZ Chang Quan material.

You can see following the Tong Bei Rou Quan form is pretty much the same form as the Chen Yi Lu form, and pre-dates it. Today's Chen Taiji Quan was created by Chen's 14th generation Chen Youben, who created his own mix of ‘Thirteen Postures Soft Hands’ and material from Tongbei Quan (which was postures from a Taizhu Chang Quan set that Dong Cheng’s Tongbei Quan style practiced). Another of Chen's 14th generation, Chen Changxin passed the original ‘Thirteen Postures Soft Hands’ to Yang Luchan, which explains why Yang Taiji Quan’s main routine’s movement names are the same as in the ’13 Postures Soft Hands” rather than as the movement names of standard Chen Taiji Quan (for example, terms like “Seize Sparrow’s Tail” are in Yang Taiji Quan and in the ‘13 Postures Soft Hands’, but not now used in Chen Taiji Quan).

Compare these form names from Tong Bei Quan to Chen TJQ, and they are essentially the same form:

白猿仙通背柔拳四十九势名 – Bia Yuan Xian Tong Bei Rou Quan Si Shi Jiu Shi Ming - White Ape Immortal Tong Bei Rou Quan 49 Patterns Names

1、左右推山 - Zuo You Tui Shan - Left Right Push Mountain
2、金刚墜 - Jin Gang Zhui - Jin Gang Fall
3、攬扎衣 - Lan Za Yi - Seize Bind Clothes
4、如封似避 - Ru Feng Si Bi - As if Sealing like Avoiding
5、单鞭 - Dan Bian - Single Whip
6、單风贯耳 - Dan Feng Quan Er - Single Wind Pierces Ear
7、白鹤亮翅 - Bai He' Liang Qi - White Crane Shows Wings
8、金絲纏鉴 - Jin Si Chan Jian - Golden Silk Wraps/coils Mirror
9、斜行 - Xie Hang - Slanting Row
10、单震脚 Dan Zhen Jiao - Single Shocking Foot

11、掩手弘拳 – Yan Shou Hong Quan – Hidden Hand Thrusting Fist
12、披身拳 – Pi Shen Quan – Unroll Body Fist
13、對心肘 – Dui Xin Zhou – Oppose Heart Elbow
14、肘底看锤 – Zhou Di Kan Chui – Elbow base Guarding Hammer
15、倒撵猴 – Dao Nian Hou – Pour-out Expel Monkey
16、退步独立 – Tui Bu Du Li – Retreating Step Independently Stand
17、金雞独立 – Jin Ji Du Li – Golden Rooster Independently Stands
18、肩肘靠 – Jian Zhou Kao – Shoulder Elbow Lean/Support
19、腿步捋手 – Tui Bu Lu/Luo Shou – Leg Step Stroking Hand
20、白蛇吐芯 – Bai Shi Tu Xin - White Snake Spits Pith
21、大背靠 – Da Bei Kao – Big Back Lean
22、騎馬問路 – Qi Ma Wen Lu – Ride Horse Ask Way
23、順水推舟 – Shun Shui Tui Zhou – Follow River Push Boat
24、云手 – Yun Shou – Cloud Hands
25、斜插一枝花 – Xie Zha Yi Zhi Hua – Slanting Piercing One Branch Flower
26、探馬势 – Tan Ma Shi – Explore Horse Pattern

27、十字手 - Shi-zi Shou - Cross Shape Hands
28、右拍脚 – You Pai Jiao – Right Clapping Foot
29、左拍脚 - Zuo Pai Jiao – Left Clapping Foot
30、转身蹬一脚 – Zhuan Shen Deng Yi Jiao – Turn Body Step into One Foot
31、前冲后冲 – Qian Zhong Hou Zhong – Front Dash Rear Dash
32、栽手炮- Zai Shou Pao - Planting Hand Cannon
33、二起脚 – Er Qi Jiao – Two Raising Feet
34、護心拳 – Hu Xin Quan - Protect Heart Fist
35、左右擦脚 – Zuo You Ca Jiao - Left Right Rubbing Foot
36、雙风貫耳 – Shuang Feng Quan Ear – Double Wind Piercing Ear

37、金雞曬膀 – Jin Ji Shai Bang – Golden Rooster Suns Wing
38、三環手 – San Huan Shou – Three Ringed Hands
39、野馬分鬃 – Ye Ma Fen Zong – Wild Horse Parts Mane

40、擺蓮脚 – Bai Lian Jiao – Swing Lotus Foot
41、凤凰展翅 – Feng-Huang Zhan Qi – Phoenix Spreads Wings
42、小開門 – Shao Kai Men – Small Open Door
43、腦后锤 – Nao Hou Chui – Brain Rear Hammer
44、双震脚 - Shuang Zhen Jiao – Double Shocking Foot
45、玉女穿梭 – Yu Nu Chuan Suo – Jade Lady Threads Shuttle

46、十字脚 – Shi-Zi Jiao - Cross shape Foot
47、指襠锤 – Zhi Dang Chui – Point Crotch Hammer
48、上步七星、退步跨虎 - Shang Bu Qi Xing, Tui Bu Kua Hu – Forward Step Seven Stars, Retreat Step Ride Tiger
49、當头炮 – Dang Tou Pao – Obstruct Head Cannon,
50、收势. - Closing Position
-----------------------------------------------------------------

厂本》的 “十三势目” - Chang Ben (Original) of 13 Shi Mu (13 Postures contents):

1. 攬 雀尾 - Lan Que Wei (Seize Bird Tail),
2. 單鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
3. 提手 - Di Shou (Lift Hands)
4. 上勢 - Shang Shi (Forward Position)
5. 白鶴亮翅 - Bai He' Liang Qi (White Crane Shows Wings),
6. 摟膝拗步 - Lou Xi Au Bu (Brush Knee Twist Step),
7. 手揮琵琶 - Shou Hui Pi Pa (Hands Wipe Guitar),
8. 進步搬攔捶 - Jin Bu Ban Lan Chui (Advance Step Deflect, parry punch (hammer)),
9. 如封似閉 - Ru Feng Si Bi (As if Sealing like Closing)

10. 抱虎推山 - Bao Hu Tui Shan (Embrace Tiger Push Mountain),
11. 攬 雀尾 - Lan Que Wei (Seize Bird Tail),
12. 肘底看捶 - Zhou Di Kan Chui (Elbow base Guarding Hammer),
13. 倒攆猴 - Dao Nian Hou (Topple Expel Monkey),
14. 斜飛式 - Xie Fei Shi (Slanting Flying pattern)
15. 提手 - Di Shou (Lifting Hands)
16. 上勢 - Shang Shi (Forward Position)
17. 白鶴亮翅 - Bai He Liang Qi (White Crane Shows Wings),
18. 摟膝拗步 - Lou Xi Au Bu (Brush Knee Twist Step),
19. 海底針 - Hai Di Zhen (Ocean Bottom Pin)
20. 扇通背 - Shan Tong Bei (Flash through back)
21. 撇身捶 - Pie Shen Chui (Throw Body Hammer)
22. 卸步搬攔捶 - Xie Bu, Ban Lan Chui (Unload Step, Deflect, parry punch (hammer))
23. 上势攬雀尾 - Shang Bu, Lan Que Wei (Forward step, Seize Bird Tail),
24. 單鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
25. 云手 - Yun Shou (Cloud Hands)
26. 高探馬 - Gao Tan Ma (High Explore Horse),

27. 左右分腳 - Zou You Fen Jiao (Left Right Dividing Foot)
28. 轉身蹬腳 - Zhuan Shen Deng Jiao (Turn Body Step into Foot),
29. 進步栽捶 - Jin Bu Zai Chui (Advance Step Planting Hammer)
30. 翻身撇身捶 - Fan Shen Pie Shen Chui (Turnover Body Throw Body Hammer)
31. 反身二起腳 - Fan Shen Er Qi Jiao (Up Body Two Lifting Feet)
32. 上步挫捶 - Shang Bu Cuo Chui (Forward Step Bend Hammer)
33. 雙峰貫耳 - Shuang feng Guan Er (Double Peak Pierce Ears)
34. 披身 踢腳 - Pi Shen Ti Jiao (Unroll body kick foot),
35. 轉身蹬腳 - Zhuan Shen Deng Jiao (Turn Body Trampling Foot)
36. 斜單鞭 - Xie Dan Bian (Slanting Single Whip)
37. 野馬分鬃 - Ye Ma Fen Zong (Wild Horse Parts Mane)

38. 玉女穿梭 - Yu Nu Chuan Suo (Jade Lady Threads Shuttles),
39. 單鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
40. 云手 - Yun Shou (Cloud Hands)
41. 上勢 - Shang Shi (Forward Position)
42. 金雞獨立 - Jin Ji Du Li (Golden Chicken Independently Stands)
43. 倒攆猴 - Dao Nian Hou (Topple Expel Monkey),
44. 斜飛式 - Xie Fei Shi (Slanting Flying pattern)
45. 提手 - Di Shou (Lifting Hands)
46. 上勢 - Forward Shi (Forward Position)
47. 白鶴亮翅 - Bai He' Liang Qi (White Crane Shows Wings),
48. 摟膝拗步 - Lou Xi Au Bu (Brush Knee Twist Step),
49. 海底針 - Hai Di Zhen (Ocean Bottom Pin)
50. 扇通背 - Shan Tong Bei (Flash through back)
51. 上势攬雀尾 - Shang Bu Lan Que Wei (Forward step Seize Bird Tail),
52. 單鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
53. 云手 - Yun Shou (Cloud Hands)
54. 高探馬 - Gao Tan Ma (High Explore Horse),

55. 十字擺蓮 - Shi-zi Bai Lian (Cross-shape Swing Lotus)
56. 摟膝指襠捶 - Lou Xie Zhi Dang Chui (Brush Knee point crotch hammer),
57. 上势攬雀尾 - Shang Bu Lan Que Wei (Forward step Seize Bird Tail),
58. 單鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
59. 上勢 - Shang Shi (Forward Position)
60. 上步七星 - Shang Bu Qi Xing (Forward step Seven Star)
61. 退步跨虎 - Tui Bu Kua Hu (Retreat Step Ride Tiger)
62. 轉脚擺蓮 - Zhuan Jiao Bai Lian (Turn Foot Swing Lotus),
63. 彎弓射虎 - Wan Gong She Hu (Bend Bow Shoot Tiger),
64. 上势攬雀尾 - Shang Bu Lan Que Wei (Forward step Seize Bird Tail),
65. 合太極 - He Tai Ji (Join Tai Ji)

-----------------------------------------------

CHEN'S FIRST thirteen postures soft hands (Created By Chen You Ben):
《陈氏拳械谱》 陈两仪堂记 头套十三势拳歌 (“Chén shì quán xiè pǔ” chén liǎng yí táng jì tóutào shísān shì quán gē) – "Chen's Boxing Instrument Spectrum" Chen Liangyi Clan Records – First Set 13 Postures Boxing Song

1. 懒插衣 - Lan Cha Yi (Lazily Insert Clothes)
2. 单鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
3. 护心拳 - Pu Xin Quan (Protect Heart Fist)
4. 前堂拗步 - Qian Zhang Ao Bu (Front Palm Twist Step)
5. 庇 身打一锤 - Bi Shen Da Yi Chui (Cover Body Strike Single Hammer)
6. 出身喝一声 - Chu Shen He Sheng (Exit Body Shout single voice)
7. 朝阳肘 - Chao Yang Zhou (Towards Sun Elbow)
8. 一脚 - Yi Jiao (Single Foot)

9. 倒卷红 - Dao Quan Hong (Topple Fist Red)
10. 六封四闭 - Liu Feng Si Bi (Six Sealing Four Closing)
11. 拗步闪通背 - Ao Bu Shan Tong Bei (Twist Step Flash Back)
12. 云手 - Yun Shou (Cloud Hands)
13. 抱头推山 - Bao Tou Tui Shan (Embrace Head Push Mountain)
14. 高探马 - Gao Tan Ma (High Explore Horse)

15. 左右插脚 - Zuo You Cha Jiao (Left Right Inserting Foot)
16. 中单鞭 - Zhong Dan Bian (Middle Single Whip)
17. 铺地锦 - Pu Di Jin (Spread Earth Brocade)
18. 二起 - Er Qi (Double Lift)
19. 跟子 - Gen Zhi (Following)
20. 演手 - Yan Shou (Playing hands)
21. 噙拳噙手 - Qin Quan Qin Shou (hold in fist hold in hand)
22. 六封四闭 - Liu Feng Si Bi (Six Sealing Four Closing)

23. 前照 - Qian Zhao (front show)
24. 后照 - Hou Zhao (back show)
25. 野马分鬃 - Ye Ma Fen Zong (Wild Horse Parts Mane)

26. 一堂蛇 - Yi Zhang Shi (One Palm Snake)
27. 金鸡独立 - Jin Ji Du Li (Golden Rooster Independently Stands)
28. 倒卷红 - Dao Quan Hong (Topple Fist Red)
29. 六封四闭 - Liu Feng Si Bi (Six Sealing Four Closing)
30. 拗步 - Ao Bu (Bend Step)
31. 通背 - Tong Bei (Through Back)云手 - Yun Shou (Cloud Hands)
32. 抱头推山 - Bao Tou Tui Shan (Embrace Head Push Mountain)
33. 高探马 - Gao Tan Ma (High Explore Horse)

34. 十字脚 - Shi-zhi Jiao (Cross Shape Foot)
35. 猿猴看果 - Yuan Hou Kan Guo (Ape Monkey Guards Fruit)
36. 单鞭 - Dan Bian (Single Whip)
37. 七星 - Qi Xing (Seven Star)
38. 挎虎 - Kua Hu (Ride Tiger)
39. 拗步 - Ao Bu (Bend Step)
40. 当头炮 - Dang Tuo Bao (Obstruct Head Embrace)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Chen Lao Jia Yi Lu - current classic Chen Old Frame First Set

Section 1:
1. Preparatory Stance or Starting Form (Qi Shi, Yu Bei Shi) 预备式 or 起势(起勢)
2. Strong Man Pounds the Mortar (Jin Gung Dao Dui) (1) 金刚捣碓 (金剛搗碓)
3. Holding Coat at the Waist (Lan Zha Yi) (2) 揽扎衣(攬紮衣)
4. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Si Bi) 六封四闭 (六封四閉)
5. Single Whip (Dan Bian) (3) 单鞭(單鞭)
6. Strong Man Pounds the Mortar (Jin Gung Dao Dui) 金刚捣碓 (金剛搗碓)
7. White Goose Spreads Wings (Bai E Liang Chi) (4) 白鹅亮翅
8. Inclined or Diagonal Posture (Xie Xing) 斜行
9. Gathering at the Knees (Lou Xi) (5) 搂膝 (摟厀)
10. Three Steps Forward (Shang San Bu) OR Twisted Steps (Ao Bu) (6) 上三步 (拗步)
11. Inclined or Diagonal Posture (Xie Xing) (7) 斜行
12. Gathering at the Knees (Lou Xi) 搂膝 (摟厀)
13. Three Steps Forward (Shang San Bu) OR Twisted Steps (Ao Bu) 上三步(拗步)
14. Hidden Punch (Yan Shou Gong Quan) (8) 掩手肱拳
15. Strong Man Pounds the Mortar (Jin Gang Dao Dui) 金刚捣碓 (金剛搗碓)

Section 2
16. Rotational Body Punch (Pie Shen Quan) (1) 撇身拳
17. Green Dragon Emerges from Water (Qin Lung Chu Shui) (2) 青龙出水(青龍出水)
18. Push with Both Hands (Shuang Tui Shou) (3) 双推手
19. Elbow Meets Fist (Zhou Di Kan Quan) (4) 肘低看拳
20. Stepping Backwards with Turning Arms (Dao Juan Gong) 倒卷肱
21. White Goose Spreads Wings (Bai E Liang Chi) 白鹅亮翅
22. Inclined or Diagonal Posture (Xie Xing) 斜行
23. Turn Back Quickly (Shan Tong Bei) (5) 闪通背
24. Hidden Punch (Yan Shou Gong Quan) 掩手肱拳
25. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Shi Bi) 六封四闭
26. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭
27. Moving or Waving Hands (Yun Shou) (6) 运手
28. Pat Horse on High Back (Gao Tan Ma) (7) 高探马

Section 3
29. Right Sweeping Kick (You Ca Jiao) (1) 右擦脚
30. Left Sweeping Kick (Zuo Ca Jiao)(1) 左擦脚
31. Left Heel Kick (Zuo Deng Yi Gen) (2) 左蹬一根
32. Three Twisted Steps Forward (Shang San Bu OR Qian Tang Au Bu) (3) 上三步 (前趟拗步)
33. Punch towards the Ground (Ji Di Chui) (4) 击地锤 (擊地錘)
34. Double Jump Kick (Ti Er Qi) (5) 踢二起
35. Protect the Heart Punch (Hu Xing Quan) (6) 护心拳
36. Tornado Kick (Xuan Feng Jiao) (7) 旋风脚
37. Right Heel Kick (You Deng Yi Gen) 右蹬一根
38. Hidden Punch (Yan Shou Gong Quan) 掩手肱拳

Section 4
39. (Small Frame) Grasping and Hitting (Xiao Qin Da) (1) 小擒打
40. Push Mountain from the Head (Bao Tou Tui Shan) (2) 抱头推山
41. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Si Bi) 六封四闭
42. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭
43. Cover the Front (Qian Zhao) (3) 前招
44. Cover the Back (Hou Zhao) (3) 后招
45. Part Wild Horse’s Mane (Ye Ma Fen Zong) (4) 野马分鬃
46. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Si Bi) (5) 六封四闭
47. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭

Section 5:
48. Jade Maiden Shuttles back and forth (Yu Nu Chuan Suo) (1) 玉女穿梭
49. Holding Coat at Waist (Lan Zha Yi) 揽扎衣(攬紮衣)
50. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Si Bi) 六封四闭 (六封四閉)
51. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭(單鞭)
52. Moving or Waving Hands (Yun Shou) 运手
53. Double White Lotus (Shuang Bai Lian) 双白莲
54. Arrange Legs to Split (Bai Jiao Die Cha) (2) 摆脚跌岔
55. Golden Rooster Stands on One Leg (Jin Ji Du Li) (3) 金鸡独立
56. Stepping Backwards with Turning Arms (Dao Juan Gong) 倒巻肱
57. White Goose Spreads Wings (Bai E Liang Chi) 白鹅亮翅
58. Inclined or Diagonal Posture (Xie Xing) 斜行
59. Turn Back Quickly (Shan Tong Bei) 闪通背
60. Hidden Punch (Yan Shou Gong Quan) 掩手肱拳
61. Six Sealing and Four Closing (Liu Feng Si Bi) 六封四闭
62. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭(單鞭)
63. Moving or Waving Hands (Yun Shou) 运手
64. Pat Horse on Back (Gao Tan Ma) 高探马

Section 6:
65. Cross Kick (Shi Zhi Jiao) (1) 十字脚
66. Punch to the Groin (Zhi Dang Chui) (2) 指裆锤
67. White Ape Presents Fruit (Bai Yuan Xian Guo or Yuan Hou Tan Guo) (3) 白猿献果 or 猿猴探果
68. Single Whip (Dan Bian) 单鞭
69. Earthworm burrowing under the mud (Que Di Long) (4) 雀地龙
70. Step Forward to Form the Seven Stars (Shang Bu Qi Xing) (5) 上步七星
71. Step Back to wrap with forearm (Xia Bu Kua Gong) (6) 下步跨肱
72. Turn Back and Wave Double Lotus Kick (Zhuan Shen Shuang Bai Lian) (7) 转身双白莲
73. Head strike Cannon Fists (Dang Tou Pao) 当头炮
74. Strong Man Pounds the Mortar (Jing Gang Dao Zhui) 金刚捣碓
75. Close (Shou Si) 收势
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina

Re: CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby LaoDan on Sat Apr 30, 2022 5:41 am

Sal, thanks for researching the connection of TJQ forms with Ming general Qi Jiguang’s (戚繼光 1528-1588) book as well as various Shaolin forms. While that is marginally interesting to me, more important is information on the philosophical underpinnings of the art that differentiates HOW the postures are used in interaction with opponents. I realize that martial arts (at least individual practices as opposed to troop strategies…) were not highly regarded in Chinese society and were not often written about, and were often passed on orally rather than through written manuals. But I was wondering if you have come across any additional written materials that point to the early history of the philosophy that accompanies TJQ.

My (layman’s) understanding so far is limited to the following early sources/references:
1)Probably the earliest Chen village written record is the “Song of Sparring” (in two versions; four and six lines), which lists four primary energy/power techniques followed by what is probably the most distinguishing strategy of Taijiquan (i.e., stick and adhere, connect and follow; zhan 沾, nian 黏, lian 连, sui 随), and finishes with the most characteristic combat result (i.e., a small force deflecting a great force which therefore lands on nothing). The age of this song (probably originally a verbal transmission) is unknown.
2)The epitaph written in 1669 by Huang Zongxi (黃宗羲 1610-1695) that mentions Shaolin and Wudang as two great schools of martial arts, and his son who wrote that the internal style used stillness to overcome movement, and that it reversed the principles of Shaolin.
3)Numerous writings published in 1781 by Chang Naizhou (苌乃周 ca. 1724-1783) that are very similar to Taijiquan philosophy, and which indicate that, even though his form was different than the Chen forms, there may have been a commonly understood (“internal”) philosophy in Henan province martial styles at this time.

Does the above agree with your understanding?

Additionally, you mention that Dong Cheng in the 1500s “was most influenced himself by the ‘Thirteen Postures of Zhang Sanfeng’ (known in the area as Rou Shisan Shi - ‘Soft 13 Postures’ or Shisan Shi Rou Quan - ‘13 Postures Soft Hands’) that he learned from a practitioner named Wang Zongyue.” I had not heard of this information previously, but this seems to be very important to the history of TJQ and its philosophical approach (placing the art as early as the mid-1500s when Wang was thought to have lived [in Shanxi Province?], and identifying a “soft” approach and “13 postures” at that time). Could you elaborate on the source(s) of this information? Was Dong a historical figure, and does this information elevate Wang from the status of “legendary” to confirming him as an actual historical person in the history of TJQ?

Is there any additional information that you have come across that may further the understanding of the origins of the philosophical differences between TJQ and Shaolin?
LaoDan
Wuji
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Mon May 17, 2010 11:51 am

Re: CHEN CHANGXING’S SONG OF TAIJI BOXING POSTURES

Postby salcanzonieri on Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:02 pm

LaoDan wrote:Sal, thanks for researching the connection of TJQ forms with Ming general Qi Jiguang’s (戚繼光 1528-1588) book as well as various Shaolin forms. While that is marginally interesting to me, more important is information on the philosophical underpinnings of the art that differentiates HOW the postures are used in interaction with opponents. I realize that martial arts (at least individual practices as opposed to troop strategies…) were not highly regarded in Chinese society and were not often written about, and were often passed on orally rather than through written manuals. But I was wondering if you have come across any additional written materials that point to the early history of the philosophy that accompanies TJQ.

My (layman’s) understanding so far is limited to the following early sources/references:
1)Probably the earliest Chen village written record is the “Song of Sparring” (in two versions; four and six lines), which lists four primary energy/power techniques followed by what is probably the most distinguishing strategy of Taijiquan (i.e., stick and adhere, connect and follow; zhan 沾, nian 黏, lian 连, sui 随), and finishes with the most characteristic combat result (i.e., a small force deflecting a great force which therefore lands on nothing). The age of this song (probably originally a verbal transmission) is unknown.
2)The epitaph written in 1669 by Huang Zongxi (黃宗羲 1610-1695) that mentions Shaolin and Wudang as two great schools of martial arts, and his son who wrote that the internal style used stillness to overcome movement, and that it reversed the principles of Shaolin.
3)Numerous writings published in 1781 by Chang Naizhou (苌乃周 ca. 1724-1783) that are very similar to Taijiquan philosophy, and which indicate that, even though his form was different than the Chen forms, there may have been a commonly understood (“internal”) philosophy in Henan province martial styles at this time.

Does the above agree with your understanding?

Additionally, you mention that Dong Cheng in the 1500s “was most influenced himself by the ‘Thirteen Postures of Zhang Sanfeng’ (known in the area as Rou Shisan Shi - ‘Soft 13 Postures’ or Shisan Shi Rou Quan - ‘13 Postures Soft Hands’) that he learned from a practitioner named Wang Zongyue.” I had not heard of this information previously, but this seems to be very important to the history of TJQ and its philosophical approach (placing the art as early as the mid-1500s when Wang was thought to have lived [in Shanxi Province?], and identifying a “soft” approach and “13 postures” at that time). Could you elaborate on the source(s) of this information? Was Dong a historical figure, and does this information elevate Wang from the status of “legendary” to confirming him as an actual historical person in the history of TJQ?

Is there any additional information that you have come across that may further the understanding of the origins of the philosophical differences between TJQ and Shaolin?


Yes, the above agree with my understanding.
But, the epitaph (2 above) is not to be taken as factual. It was written to be a veiled anti-Qing rulers thing. None of the info it says is real or factual. Others have written about that.
The "Ten Essential Points" writings are very important and were super influential on the whole area, including Chang NaiZhou.
A lot of historical info about this and more are found in my book "The Hidden History of the Chinese Internal Martial Arts".

My book has a whole section on Wang ZongYue (王宗嶽), and presents all the real info known about him. It will answer all your questions. It is pages of info about him and Jiang Fa.
Also, something that people don't realize is his name is a play on words, it means Wang (Great) Zong (Ancestor) Yue (Yue Fei). And "Wang (King) descended from Yue Mountain". The Tongbei Quanpu manuals place Wang living during Dong Cheng’s and Dong Bingqian’s time period (late 1500s-early 1600s), which includes Chen Wangting’s time period as well.
All the confusion about Wang and others was caused by the so-called historian Tang Hao, who alwasy jumped to conclusions without real fact checking and cross checking. Anything he could bend to fit his pre-conceived notions he did. which caused so much info damage and total confusions. For example, he conflated different Wangs from different times and places into one person. Again all laid out and explained point by point in my book.

The historical Dong Cheng is in my book. There is a Tong Bei Manual from late 1500s-early 1600s written by him that has been found are published in China, which I have a copy and was available from Plum Publications MA book distributors. It is a hand written manual in Chinese.

Some books that would be good for you to read about the Chinese attitude about Chinese Martial Arts are:
- A History of Shaolin - Buddhism, Kung Fu and Identity - by Lu ZhouXiang
- Politics and Identity in Chinese Martial Arts - by Lu ZhouXiang
- Possible Origins A Cultural History of Chinese Martial Arts, Theater, and Religion - by Scott Park Phillips
- Tai Chi, Baguazhang, and the Golden Elixir Internal martial arts before the boxer rebellion - by Scott Park Phillips.
- and of course my book The Hidden History of the Chinese Internal Martial Arts - by Sal Canzonieri

these books will give you a lot to think about. All are available on Amazon.
Last edited by salcanzonieri on Sat Apr 30, 2022 7:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
salcanzonieri
Great Old One
 
Posts: 804
Joined: Thu May 15, 2008 5:44 pm
Location: Cary, North Carolina


Return to Xingyiquan - Baguazhang - Taijiquan

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests