Personal practice - Separating Wheat from the Chaff

[origami_itto]

Well what are your goals? Are you fighting in a ring are you interested in combatives? Pure self defense? What about health considerations? Conditioning the nervous system? Avoiding conflict?

Personally I think Taijiquan is the pinnacle of self cultivation and defense and just have to choose what to work into each days training. I don't really think about what I've discarded.

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

Well what are your goals? Are you fighting in a ring are you interested in combatives? Pure self defense? What about health considerations? Conditioning the nervous system? Avoiding conflict?

Personally I think Taijiquan is the pinnacle of self cultivation and defense and just have to choose what to work into each days training. I don't really think about what I've discarded.

For my part I have done plenty of sport fighting (boxing/muay thai/bjj competitions over the last 20 years) but after that length of involvement I understand that head trauma and joint injuries are cumulative and I still have another 40+ years left if I do it right and the fate of people I know who competed more than me isn't so great. I've been working with another instructor to find a strategy to maintain both the diversity of what is practiced and the "ring-equivalent sharpness" of those skills (gloved, barehanded, weapons, etc).

[wayne hansen]

I have some things I have been practicing since the 70’s
I knew they were good because of who I got them from
They only revealed themselves to me in the last couple of months
They are a whole new beast
Changing teachers styles picking and choosing only lessens your chances of success





[Doc Stier]

Changing teachers, styles, picking and choosing, only lessens your chances of success.

Yes, sir. That's a fac, jack. That scenario practically guarantees that too little time and effort will be devoted to anything in the mix to really master any of it sufficiently to let it inform you at a consistently deeper level over time. The ardent forms and styles collector usually sacrifices quality for the sake of quantity.

[johnwang]

There are so many skills that are worthwhile to develop. You just don't have time to develop everything.

I teach this skill but I tell my students that I don't train it myself for the following reasons:

- What dignity do you have if you drop your knee in front of your opponent.
- This skill is hard to apply outdoor on the concret.

[wiesiek]

over 30 years of trainings is nuf time to sublimate into your own style, if you practice daily.
If you unable to select pearls...
well,
guess the bitter truth.

Thanks internet random, I must be truly awful.

No, I didn`t suggested so,
`cause you clearly misunderstanding:
It was statement with potentially big capacity of meanings,
you have to pick up proper one for you, in this particular place in time and space where are you now... it is internal forum, remember?
Exact meaning of this message for present t.:
You simply didn`t pay sharp attention during past 30 years , when your body was telling something, or teachers of yours shoudn`t teach .

in another case, title of the thread should be worded differently.

[wiesiek]

Doc, I can agree with Wayne statement , but only if you mastered (to the decent level)one style 1st.
Like in judo, where real meaning of "black belt" is:
ok, you get the basic, time to serious study...

[wiesiek]

John,
dignity in the real fights is restricted to the movie and (not always) GM duels
but
speakin` about posted technique:
it can be executed like "big inner sweep", w/o locking and kneeling.
2nd one is more effective - in meaning, that nicely done can break the leg,
but on concrete throwin` someone on back of his skull doin` even better

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

Doc, I can agree with Wayne statement , but only if you mastered (to the decent level)one style 1st.
Like in judo, where real meaning of "black belt" is:
ok, you get the basic, time to serious study...

This is the curious part, he mentioned "success" but that's a very nebulous goal. If a practitioner wants to be a good fighter, "staying the course" with a school and teacher that doesn't have that goal isn't going to bear fruit no matter how long the student takes. Xu Xiaodong shone a light on that unpleasant reality the same way UFC 1 did in the 90s. As someone with both traditional and contemporary experience (training and teaching), this isn't the introspection of boredom, it's a genuine concern for what can and cannot be brought forward meaningfully or applicably and how those lines should be drawn. John talking about dropping to a knee being "undignified" seems far less relevant compared to the risks of spiking your knee into a rock on unsuitable ground - is that technique best forgotten on ground of dignity, not taught for risk of use in poor circumstance, or taught with the caveat of "this is best used on soft ground or reaping the leg so your knee doesn't impact the floor." There are many roads forward for even just one technique and it's clear that many styles choose the former over the latter generation by generation but speaking as a dirty style mutt who likes to fight but kinda wants it to look pretty when he does it solo, how does a school foster that evolution over the alternatives AND because its CMA, at one point does someone look at it and say "yeah, but that's not REAL xyz," and how did we all get into this mess in the first place?

[wayne hansen]

Wolf my idea of success or my remarks would mean little to you due to the fact you have different goals
I don’t ask anyone to follow my ideas
I am just talking

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

Wolf my idea of success or my remarks would mean little to you due to the fact you have different goals
I don’t ask anyone to follow my ideas
I am just talking

I wholly understand your meaning and don't take personal offense (except when it's funny), text is an imperfect medium. The question of defining goals is a meaningful one though, as you said - you held practices since the 70s that only revealed their value recently, I would be interested to hear you define that value for me? I only have my perspective and the reason for opening this dialogue was to hear others motivations, not talk about my own.

I freely admit that I am still very much into the meat and bones of fighting, whatever I do (IMA or other) I look to see a physical expression of efficacy either in more power for less effort or a method creating higher levels of timing/placement/distance appreciation at non-compliant intensity. That may be reductive to some but of higher level to others with equal experience, I'm not claiming any kind of ethical high ground and engaging the dialogue as it develops just as you are.

[wayne hansen]

I didn’t think you were it’s just that you seem to be on a different path
I can’t even explain it to people who have been doing the same exercises for 30 years
All I say to them is keep going it will reward you

[johnwang]

you seem to be on a different path ...

May I ask, "What's your path?"

[Sea.Wolf.Forge]

I didn’t think you were it’s just that you seem to be on a different path
I can’t even explain it to people who have been doing the same exercises for 30 years
All I say to them is keep going it will reward you

When I was in my teens I started training with an instructor (who I freely admit is one of the best martial artists I've ever met) who said the same about certain exercises, "keep going, you'll understand later" over and over to me and other students for years. I don't think he was disingenuous, I think he really believed the advice and that had been his experience. I had to move for school and spent a half-decade training other things wherever I could. At year 17 of knowing this instructor, and when I finally got back to town, the question was "did you keep up xyz?" to which I had to admit I hadn't and was admonished for it but then I proceeded to mop the floor with his longtime students (my seniors) who I assume were still waiting for some kind of enlightenment to come down the pipe. I couldn't justify staying at the school after that. I don't regret my path at all and I now view an inability to explain a principle or adherence to dogma without justification as usually the roots of cult-like followings in TMA and I'm glad to have finished "that phase" of my training.

[johnwang]

"keep going, you'll understand later" ...

I will never say that to my students. I told them that if they want to develop

- strong head lock, and
- powerful leg twist,

they will need to spend time in "pole hanging". Whether they will spend time to do that is not under my control. CMA is dying out just because people don't want to do their homework.