The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

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The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby Yeung on Wed Jul 20, 2022 10:20 am

The term Ji means crowd, squeeze or push against, and Shen Jiazhen 沈家楨 (1963) describe it as a double Bing or Peng, rotate both arms outward together to squeeze or push against the opponent. This is used as an example of Fajing by most practitioners to activate the shoulder and torso muscles as well as the arms to coordinate with the forward movement of the crotch to achieve maximum eccentric strength or the so-called explosive power. This is also an example of strength from the spine. There are three common techniques of downward squeeze, upward squeeze, and holozonal squeeze to activate the muscles of arms, shoulders, and torso. I am no expert in anything let alone anatomy, so the followings are just some rough description of muscles involved in these techniques:

Downward squeeze: outward rotation of both arms, stretching the deltoids and trapezius, and compressing the ribcage.
Upward squeezes; outward rotation of goth arms, stretch muscles under the armpit, latissimus dorsi muscles, the abdominal muscles, chest relaxed.
Holozonal squeeze: outward rotation of both arms, stretch muscles under the armpit and the upper back with chest passively compressed.

I think Ji has sort of explained the power of a pure eccentric movement without concentric strength, and experienced the recoil effect after the issue of force to push off or to break a grip on the upper arms and push off, etc. Ji is simple to do, and most beginners can do it after a short practical session in pushing hands, or the Yiquan people do in Shili or a test of strength. Its comparative advantage is after issue of force and utilising the recoil to release the tension of the arms and carry on with the next technique such as in Grasp Peacock’s Tail squeeze, grab and press down. Most squeeze is combined with the forward movement of the crotch to maintain stability. This ability is not new, I am sure we have witnessed it from teachers and masters even if we can not achieve such power and flexibility and stability which is not something achievable with concentric muscle force. Ji can be used to neutralise a powerful push by maximum resistance and then to deal with the residual force with another technique such as move backward and pressing down or pulling to the side, etc.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby Bao on Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:07 pm

Yeung wrote:a double Bing or Peng, rotate both arms outward together to squeeze or push against the opponent.
...
There are three common techniques of downward squeeze, upward squeeze, and holozonal squeeze to activate the muscles of arms, shoulders, and torso. I am no expert in anything let alone anatomy, so the followings are just some rough description of muscles involved in these techniques:

Downward squeeze: outward rotation of both arms, stretching the deltoids and trapezius, and compressing the ribcage.
Upward squeezes; outward rotation of goth arms, stretch muscles under the armpit, latissimus dorsi muscles, the abdominal muscles, chest relaxed.
Holozonal squeeze: outward rotation of both arms, stretch muscles under the armpit and the upper back with chest passively compressed.


I don't agree with any of this, and I couldn't care the least if he is regarded as a master or not. Maybe it's his personal interpretation from a Chen style perspective, but IMO, it's simply wrong. In Yang, Wu, Wu(/Hao) and Sun style forms the ji is performed while the elbows relaxes downwards. Especially visible in the latter two styles where the fornt hand's palm is facing upwards. And many Chen stylists, as Feng Zhiqiang, meant that ji means a straight force, and it's mostly understood as force/strength/energy/movement coming straight from the center of the body.

Ji can be horizontal, upwards, downwards, that is correct. "Squeeze" in ji means squeezing together your own body, press out, or squeeze out, the energy. Like pressing together something, as a ball with hole filled with water, or bellows or a bagpipe. The water or air is pressed out forward in a straight line.

If you rotate the arms outwards or lift the elbow, the energy moves to the outside of the arms, shaping a sphere. This is a peng shape, not ji.
Last edited by Bao on Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby everything on Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:32 pm

"eccentric strength" .... dozens to 100s of threads trying to say this? but doesn't seem like we can follow you.

I would listen to Bao. why make everything so incredibly complicated sounding?
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby cloudz on Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:33 am

for me the major point about ji is the triangulation of power, if it's not focused to a point, somewhere, then it's not ji. it's the defining characteristic.

you don't need two arms or hands to triangulate your force/ power. in every forward issuance there should be the idea of triangulation working all through/ up and out of your body, from both sides to a single point of impact/ focus. As Bao mentions it's like squeezing - but I think the term triangulation captures it all better - for me at least.

The neigong I learnt and use(d) involved creating triangles throughout the body, and that's really stuck with me, and have found really useful. From a stationary static structure it's what creates the 'drum skin' quality that is capable of rebounding away incoming force.

PS. all the waffle about eccentric and concentric is very much irrelevant. ::)
Last edited by cloudz on Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:50 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby everything on Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:46 am

I saw a basketball player who happened to be a D1 athlete in another sport use this triangle push quite effectively. I doubt he even does tai chi.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby Doc Stier on Fri Jul 22, 2022 8:46 am

cloudz wrote:for me the major point about ji is the triangulation of power, if it's not focused to a point, somewhere, then it's not ji. it's the defining characteristic.

you don't need two arms or hands to triangulate your force/ power. in every forward issuance there should be the idea of triangulation working all through/ up and out of your body, from both sides to a single point of impact/ focus. As Bao mentions it's like squeezing - but I think the term triangulation captures it all better - for me at least.

The neigong I learnt and use(d) involved creating triangles throughout the body, and that's really stuck with me, and have found really useful. From a stationary static structure it's what creates the 'drum skin' quality that is capable of rebounding away incoming force.

PS. all the waffle about eccentric and concentric is very much irrelevant. ::)

Agreed on all points above. Whether in videos or in live performances, most TCC I see displays little or no triangulation. The incorrect placement of the feet in wide stances, combined with upper body movement of the arms and hands that runs parallel to the direction in which the feet point, virtually guarantees that there will be no triangulation of power in the postures.

Thus, TCC performed softly in that way, without exerting considerable muscular force, will have insufficient power to be effective for fighting applications, and will simply be a slow motion dance exercise routine. It may be beautiful to watch in some instances, but remains essentially a paper tiger with no fangs or claws. :-\
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby robert on Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:52 am

I thought I'd point out that in taiji there are postures and transitions between the postures. When Shen Jiazhen writes -

(3)双手同时将掤劲交叉向外掤出,称为挤劲,

(3) Both hands at the same time peng jin strength overlap/intersect outward peng is called ji (squeeze/press) jin;

I think he's writing more about the transition of ji in push hands than the posture. That's from the book Chen Style Taijiquan. In the following video Ma Hong goes through the push hands sequence and at 18:03 (the transition) he's talking about squeeze and Ma Hong says his left hand and right forearm join into one force. That matches my experience, what's shown in the video, and what SJZ writes. At 18:10 the ji posture is shown, but that also fits the description that SJZ gives.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kSYr5VxYwI
Last edited by robert on Fri Jul 22, 2022 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby Yeung on Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:08 am

Ji conforms to the traditional teaching of Fajin with spongy chest and stretchy back, and issue force from the spine squeeze the torso to generate that sudden burst of power coordinated with forward motion of the crotch with the lengthening of relevant muscle, without brute force. It is just a question of knowing how that is all. From my observation,most practitioners emulate Ji with brute force just don’t have that kind of bursting effect but still can built up shoulder and arm strength which might be sufficient to fool those do not know the art of neutralisation because there are problems with brute force in terms of over balance, slowness in response, and stiffness, etc. Brute force just can not develop the springy effect in Taijiquan without going into details of developing and utilising muscle elasticity. As Shen Jiazhen suggested, the importance of the process of getting rid of stiffness developed by most people using brute force instead of stretchy and springy and maintain spongy. This is why there are problems in China in developing the art of neutralisation of Taijiquan by people with a solid background in external martial arts. The thought of doing Taijiquan is just like doing any martial arts slowly and softly is a mistake.
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Re: The Art of Neutralisation in Taijiquan: Ji 挤(擠)

Postby Yeung on Mon Jul 25, 2022 2:26 am

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