Tai Chi Opening Stance

[dragonprawn]

Hi Everyone,

I was just curious as to how far apart the feet should be when beginning the Yang form. I have heard two inches but I am usually a bit wider. Is there a standard Chinese measure mentioned somewhere? The rest of the form measurements are based on shoulder width, knee straightening, what have you, but does this starting posture have some agreed upon distance?

[origami_itto]

Depends why. What's the point of the feet together? Some would say it's to allow for a bow when playing the form before an audience. Can't perform without bowing, can't bow with your legs apart.

Some folks make the step out an important part of training.

The Dong family starts all of the forms with the feet shoulder width.

What I first learned was heels one to two inches apart.

[dragonprawn]

Thanks. So the Dong family does not do the step out. Interesting. I don't teach the opening the first day, I add it after students learn part I and go back to beginning for some corrections. The "see-saw" of the opening is too challenging to do first thing. And I guess when I say two inches, that is pretty common.

[Bao]

"shoulder width"

But what is that? Feet aligned with or outside the shoulder line.

One thing is for sure, and that is that you can measure a "Tai Chi master's" ego by the width of his stance.

[windwalker]

Hi Everyone,

I was just curious as to how far apart the feet should be when beginning the Yang form. I have heard two inches but I am usually a bit wider. Is there a standard Chinese measure mentioned somewhere? The rest of the form measurements are based on shoulder width, knee straightening, what have you, but does this starting posture have some agreed upon distance?

In gen...we use whats called the "small leg " as a guide
ie knee to ankle distance, as the width and length other families may be different with different rational for doing so..

[yeniseri]

Tai Chi opening stance (Yang style) generally" is shoulder width while stating that may differ based on which Yang style you are studying.
As you may be aware, Yang style, has so many ways of presenting the descriptive Yang that I am surprised that it is still going strong and they all claim to be the original teaching. Each student has to seek their own path.

There is Yang stye (generic my wording), Yang Family, Yang Secret Style, etc Just choose one and study as dilgently as you are capable.

[wayne hansen]

How is this even a question
This should be so well drilled that it goes without question
It is like asking where is the starting line in the 100 meters sprint

[dragonprawn]

How is it a question? The question is how to stand in neutral before opening. I say 2 inches but that is not a Chinese measurement. I think it's a good question.

[yeniseri]

The question is how to stand in neutral before opening. I say 2 inches but that is not a Chinese measurement. I think it's a good question.

Now that you clarified vs the title of the thread, there are actually 3 responses
1. How you were taught i.e. what you teachers told you or showed you the actual "neutral" stance
2. Shoulder width will change per build of individual, as you know so 2 ins may be wide for the thin person and the muscular fell it MAY be too narrow
3. 预备式 yù bèi shì is before raising hands 起势 qĭ shì. This is where feet are close together and hands at dantian/qi hai THEN separate foot then raise hands.

Here is an example:
In this portion 001-011, if I understand, is the neutral stance with 012-? the beginning of raising hands (qi shi) where the shoulder width comes in! Is this right?

[origami_itto]

I would call that a shoulder and a half

[dragonprawn]

I thought my OP was clear enough. I was asking about before the step out to shoulder width (or more depending on what frame you are doing). It's not that it is all that important, but I was just curious. For one thing it might be the first thing you teach someone and it would be nice to be clear. Also it is part of the actual form because this is when you first sink, etc. And one a personal level, when I look around our kwoon I see more variation than ever. It was not something I put much thought into prior, admittedly. But if there is nothing written about it then so be it.

[Bao]

I thought my OP was clear enough. I was asking about before the step out to shoulder width
...
But if there is nothing written about it then so be it.

Had a quick look in some of the oldest yang style tai chi books. They all start the form by actually standing with the feet shoulder width apart. Nothing about how you get there.

[wayne hansen]

I misunderstood your question
Thinking you were talking about the shoulder width or goat riding stance
The one I like is the CMC
Start with the feet touching
Shift weight to either foot turn the other to 45
Repeat on the other side
You are now in the female character stance weight centered
Shirt weight to right foot
Lift left foot from knee lifting heel toes dripping
Lift toes do small side kick skimming floor toes up
Settle left foot to floor
Shift weight left
Straighten right foot

[dragonprawn]

Thanks guys. Yes I saw that CMC's feet were together with no space. And in looking at more videos I see that beginning the form with the feet already open to shoulder width is much more common than I had realized (not just Dong family).
I was thinking about how 4 ounces deflects 1000 pounds is not a literal translation, and though that might be even less of an exact statement (in terms of physics), there might be something in the old manuals about what I and others refer to as "around two inches". But it's not that important.