Internal karate

[GrahamB]

I have a theory that all martial arts are becoming more "internal" over time as it's the way to make what you are teaching more palatable to the masses, especially the seminar crowd or week long retreat crowd. If you are not doing martial arts for sport fighting reasons then I think your average punter wants a bit of depth, and the more 'internal' you make it the more depth you can mine. And to be honest it's pretty easy to add 'internal' principles into anything, and of course it's quite possible that the more internal way of doing things was the original way, we just somehow got diverted during the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/ so perhaps everything is coming back full circle.

Internal Karate - (the "real" karate!) will be the next thing, mark my words!

[origami_itto]

What I've seen/read/learned of the okinawa stuff looks a lot like that.

And Hotton Sensei definitely has some of the stuff.

But, like, Taijiquan is Taijiquan, knowutimean

[origami_itto]

Relaxed Heaviness and connecting to the center
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP32emzQXrE


Two Ways to create power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvvIS1EDQYI

[everything]

I have a theory that all martial arts are becoming more "internal" over time as it's the way to make what you are teaching more palatable to the masses, especially the seminar crowd or week long retreat crowd. If you are not doing martial arts for sport fighting reasons then I think your average punter wants a bit of depth, and the more 'internal' you make it the more depth you can mine. And to be honest it's pretty easy to add 'internal' principles into anything, and of course it's quite possible that the more internal way of doing things was the original way, we just somehow got diverted during the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/ so perhaps everything is coming back full circle.

Internal Karate - (the "real" karate!) will be the next thing, mark my words!

think so as well.

- middle aged weekend warriors with bad knees from previous sports stuff need something "palatable" and "interesting"
- they're kind of past their prime "sporting careers" so don't really "need" mma
- "internal" is pretty fascinating, whatever one thinks it is (or maybe since nobody can ever get a handle on "the Tao", it has no limit for interest)
- if this population is going to "fight", it's quite a stupid idea for many reasons (not just guns, knives, whatever). better to go to the "seminar".
- etc.

whether it was the "original" and "real", who knows. I like the "relaxed heavy" video.

[yeniseri]

I have a theory that all martial arts are becoming more "internal" over time as it's the way to make what you are teaching more palatable to the masses, especially the seminar crowd or week long retreat crowd. If you are not doing martial arts for sport fighting reasons then I think your average punter wants a bit of depth, and the more 'internal' you make it the more depth you can mine. And to be honest it's pretty easy to add 'internal' principles into anything, and of course it's quite possible that the more internal way of doing things was the original way, we just somehow got diverted during the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/ so perhaps everything is coming back full circle.

Internal Karate - (the "real" karate!) will be the next thing, mark my words!

think so as well.

- middle aged weekend warriors with bad knees from previous sports stuff need something "palatable" and "interesting"
- they're kind of past their prime "sporting careers" so don't really "need" mma
- "internal" is pretty fascinating, whatever one thinks it is (or maybe since nobody can ever get a handle on "the Tao", it has no limit for interest)
- if this population is going to "fight", it's quite a stupid idea for many reasons (not just guns, knives, whatever). better to go to the "seminar".
- etc.

whether it was the "original" and "real", who knows. I like the "relaxed heavy" video.[/quote

Good point!
As a sentient being over 65 I am confident in my "skill level" but I know I am incapable of having the same reflexes as when I was in USMC bootcamp 45 years ago. RIght now I am seeking and have been seeking peace, tranquility and ordiliness but as we know the devils, demons and other miscreants are always looking for weakness to play their game. I am not " past my prime" but I recognize that spped and strength are still necessary as one part and is usually separate from "skill" regardless of specialness or other quality.
I use the term internal in an odd way compared to my peers but my own realization is that being in the activity that one choose to play is always positive and the martial kind is still my better activity.

That realization most recent comes from my recent status as novice/beginner in the use of jo and the musculoskeletal integration needed to trigger the brain to do its work. I worked muscles what I haven't done for decades and I have used that tenmplate for taijijian (sword work) as a tool to bridge that muscle integratity framework while increasing coordination and balance. Just basic walking wakes up the whole body and it appears moreso now than in my younger years.
This may seem strange to some but it MAY only be understood when one reaches over 60 years because one realizes that mobility and quality of life is that more important if one has an active lifestyle.

If anyone has done the basic work about Okinawan origin of what we call karate, we will see that the system currently taught in Japan is distinct from its origin!

[windwalker]

Relaxed Heaviness and connecting to the center
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mP32emzQXrE


Two Ways to create power
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvvIS1EDQYI

Seems to be different that what is normally referred to as "kime"

Kime is a commonly used Japanese martial arts term. In karate it can mean "power" and/or "focus," describing the instantaneous tensing at the correct moment during a technique. The tension at this time is mostly focused on the dantian ("hara") and abdomen.

The idea that karate, is not internal seems quite strange..

[yeniseri]

I have a theory that all martial arts are becoming more "internal" over time as it's the way to make what you are teaching more palatable to the masses, especially the seminar crowd or week long retreat crowd. If you are not doing martial arts for sport fighting reasons then I think your average punter wants a bit of depth, and the more 'internal' you make it the more depth you can mine. And to be honest it's pretty easy to add 'internal' principles into anything, and of course it's quite possible that the more internal way of doing things was the original way, we just somehow got diverted during the 50s/60s/70s/80s/90s/ so perhaps everything is coming back full circle.

Internal Karate - (the "real" karate!) will be the next thing, mark my words!

Actually, there have always been a small and inconsequential minority of indididuals with the concept of Internal Karate but they were always ignored and it was explained in different terminologies. I use the word "inconsequential " because it was never taken seriously and many stuck to the punch, kick, hit, paradigm of "karate" standardized.
Kanawaza Sensei alluded to it but did not specifically use the term Internal Karate and may Okinawan masters still maintain that tradition though explained in a differnt way vis a vis the Japan mainland current expression of karate, though it is changing.
Sanchin Kata - Golden Bell Origin:
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... in+okinawa
WHen taught, it shows its fundamental that bridges styles and systems. Okinawan karate even has a system that approximates tuishou (rolling hands). All the elements are there

There was a fellow about 30 years ago who wrote a book about his experiences camparing karate systems and he is still doubted despite his historical references/documentation I do not recall his name off hand but there is another fellow Patrick Mccarthy, author of Bubishi, where he also documents the South China origins of Okinawan systems.

[wayne hansen]

The guy in the clips is good no matter what he calls it
More internal than a lot of those doing Chinese arts

[windwalker]

Internal Karate


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wx_JsRQ_P9U


Some Chinese masters also use the same type of training....

wing chun ---Chris Chan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXc5yJ5hdn0&t=15s

[Kelley Graham]

My hard-style teacher back in the 80's was Jiro Shiroma he called what he taught Shuri-Te. He is acknowledged here at the bottom. https://shorinryukensankai.org/our-heritage/. I would characterize what he taught as hard-soft. However, the breathing methods employed develop a different kind of perception of the internal. Whole body power? yes. Sanchin Kata develops good abdominal and upper torso protection, but cannot protect anything else, like Golden Robe. Also, there are many unwanted consequences of 'forcing the breath'. Good for fighting? yes. Does it lead to the various jins that characterize 'Internal Power" No. Does it contain the completion of the Taiji microcosmic and macrocosmic orbits? No. Does it matter? No. This Okinawan system, I can speak to only as I studied for a decade or so. Not enough to be an expert, but well informed. It was the softest fighting art I could find in my area at the time. I really liked Jiro Shiroma too. Great guy. Excellent character and produced solid kickboxing fighters using traditional methods.

[everything]

This may seem strange to some but it MAY only be understood when one reaches over 60 years because one realizes that mobility and quality of life is that more important if one has an active lifestyle.

doesn't sound strange at all. playing sports with 30 year olds at 50+, and then getting an injury, makes me realize mobility is so key for these activities and general life quality/enjoyment. hope I'm doing enough mobility work now to help my future 60+ self.

[ambulocetus]

I don't know if you'd call it internal or not, but I like the way these gentlemen move.