The real reason Taijiquan has such a bad rap.

[windwalker]

Qi, shen etc, should only be discussed at a general level or explained as a cultural way to describe the World.

good post

a little background some might find interesting

excerpt from: Oi 氣 Magazine Issue 28 October/November 96.

Jing, Qi, Shen.
The human body is only Jing, Qi and Shen- the three treasures. There are few subjects in Chinese culture that are so pervasive or important. They are the foundation for a vast body of knowledge. You can not say that you know about Chinese arts if you do not know something about Jing, Qi and Shen.

This article will hopefully give an impression of the meaning of the characters for Jing, Qi and Shen.
The information given here is a cultural background to the subject and not the last words by any means.
It is quite possible the kind of information that a child might be taught when they were leaning to read and write.

gets into the weeds,,for those interested...
Should relate to any practice concerning Chinese Martial Arts...
depending on need and depth of practice might help to provide a background for ones practice...
or answers to how the cultural aspects are looked at from the culture they originated from.

There is a large body of cultural knowledge IMA practices are built on.

How the information is used, or for what, very dependent on interest
and focus....

[johnwang]

My long fist teacher is 96 years old today. He is still living strong as a life time long fist guy. Does Qi have anything to do with health?

A: You can use Qi for ...
B: What does Qi have anything to do with "fist meet face"?
A: Not much.
B: Then why should I care about it?

What will be your answer for B?

[windwalker]

A: You can use Qi for ...
B: What does Qi have anything to do with "fist meet face"?
A: Not much.
B: Then why should I care about it?

What will be your answer for B?

"B: Then why should I care about it? "
"You " don't need to...

The fist will meet face anyway....

Its what one can do or not with it....

There are other teachers ones quite famous and noted that do feel its important


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KNaxFBd7EYY

maybe Adam might have a few words on it...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WztghXVn6NI


He says if you don't have the Chinese internal then what one does is not Chinese Kung fu

"kung fu has it's DNA too".

[windwalker]

My long fist teacher is 96 years old today. He is still living strong as a life time long fist guy. Does Qi have anything to do with health?

A: You can use Qi for ...
B: What does Qi have anything to do with "fist meet face"?
A: Not much.
B: Then why should I care about it?

What will be your answer for B?

This might be another answer for "B"
should one want to know about burning palm

My first CMA teacher



Mike Staples, thoughts on QI

The force of qi, an integral feature of the burning hand, is one of those things you need to experience in order to really get the idea.

You can watch a gongfu master send a student sailing through the air, but there is a part of you that figures it’s either a trick, or there is an explanation that isn’t going to boil down some mysterious, unexplained force. And yet…

Now, I am not a gullible person, and it was going to take more than a trickle of this second force through a phone book to convince me that this slapping stuff was anything much.

And so it was that Mr. Long deflected my punch with a slap…just a little too hard.

Fist meet face

And as a result, my arm locked out in front of me, as if frozen, while a searing pain moved through the flexor muscle compartment of my forearm.

My jaw clenched shut as I could feel beads of sweat forming on my face. Mr. Long continued to yack away at the other students, unaware of my predicament.

I was struggling to breath, actually. I couldn’t move, actually.

But out of the corner of my eye, I could see the other students now looking at me with some concern.

For his part, still talking to the group, Mr. Long began pulling back to strike again.

He still wasn’t looking in my direction.

I tried to retract my arm, but couldn’t move. Then finally, I managed to whimper something out… like “Aaaa!”

I know that sounds dramatic, but that’s what happened. And lucky for me, it was enough to get Mr. Long to stop talking and turn his head to see that I was in some serious hurt. I would not have been a happy camper had I been hit like that twice.

The next day I had a huge black and blue mark on my forearm, pretty much the size of his palm.
But this was not a result of force #1. That kind of force would have maybe broken a bone, had he hit hard enough, or maybe it would have done nothing,

if he hadn’t hit hard enough, but this was something from force #2. And call it whatever you like… call it qi, or burning hand, or whatever… it is something you need to personally experience in order to get the idea. And I got the idea.

Burning hand


What is called Burning hand , classed as an external practice based on cultivating internal principles to enhance the external part..

All CMA is internal

Adam Hsu, "its part of CMA's DNA..".

[ambulocetus]

A few years ago, due to a non-compete agreement, I was forced to go back to my first job as a short order cook. Now you've all been to a diner where the kitchen is seperated from the dining room by a window. The cooks put the food in the window and the waitresses grab the plates and deliver them to the customers. On an average day, the window has plenty of room for all the food, so sometmes the waitresses would stack things like napkins there.
One day 2 busses full of tourists pull into the parking lot and evetyone jumped into gear. They all sat down at the same time and we started cooking the food. As the food was finished, the window started to fill up. The waitresses were hustling to keep up, but even so, the plates started to push each oither out of the way. Eventually one of the plates pushed in to the stack of napkins and they flew all over, and this was noy an opputune time for something like that to happen. Needless to say, the waitress who put them there freaked out a little.
I said I was sorry that that had happened, but that I didn't really think that that was a good spot to put stuff like that. The waitress idignantly replied "That's the way we've always done it." I wanted to ask her if that was a good reason to keep doing it, but that wasn't the time or place. To this day, you can visit that diner and the waitresses still stack their napkins in the window.
If you could go back in time to the Boxer Rebellion, I'm sure you would find many patriotic Chinese who were willing to fight for their country. If you were to ask them if they would rather have you teach them Iron Shirt Qi Gung or to give them a modern Kevlar bullet proof vest, how many do you think would stick with the Qi Gung because "that's the way we've always done it"? Probably one or two, but they wouldn't last very long.
In warfare, culture and tradition will always take a backseat to practicality and innovation. I submit that evolution and change has always been part of traditional martial arts. Otherwise we would all still be practicing Yueh Fei's 8 Flashing strikes or Qi Ji Guang's 32 Fists instead of the variety of styles we have today.
You have to know how to crawl before you can walk, but once you can walk, you might as well run. Maybe I'm still at the crawling stage in my martial journey, but until somebody shows me that people can fly, I will keep working towards the ability to run, because I've seen people run and I know that it's possible.

[windwalker]

In warfare, culture and tradition will always take a backseat to practicality and innovation. I submit that evolution and change has always been part of traditional martial arts. Otherwise we would all still be practicing Yueh Fei's 8 Flashing strikes or Qi Ji Guang's 32 Fists instead of the variety of styles we have today.
You have to know how to crawl before you can walk, but once you can walk, you might as well run. Maybe I'm still at the crawling stage in my martial journey, but until somebody shows me that people can fly, I will keep working towards the ability to run, because I've seen people run and I know that it's possible.

Do you feel "
is Chinese food

If you went to a restaurant selling Chinese food,,,,not able to see the cooks.. Would you be able to tell it was not authentic ?

would it matter..

for some it might...


There is. a saying

. "hanging a sheep's head and selling dog meat"

some might say,,meat is meat...
others might not know...
some might and keep looking

sharing some thoughts

真假思潮引起的沉思
2022.11.4.
太极拳具备非常经典鲜明的文化属性，太极推手具有十分真实的传统传承属性。文化属性是说太极的经典文化理论，经典文化理论包括老拳论和门里先辈的太极拳论。文化理论是太极拳的灵魂，不用文化理论武装头脑玩的太极拳就象缺了魂一样，没有拳的味道，也没有拳的灵性，只能瞎子骑马盲人摸象，瞎摸乱撞，有的撞坏了膝盖，有的摸的真气元气早失，没入耄耋即未老先衰；传统传承属性是说传统继承人的影像视频。传统太极的突出特色之一是有门有派，各门各派都代代相传，一代有一代的继承人，代传的继承人就是接班人，是传统太极一代继承一代的接班人。事实证明，合格的传统太极门的接班人，如有影影传世的汪永泉，朱怀元，马岳粱，马长勋，李经梧及他们的后代接班人，不但有经典鲜明的文化理论水平，而且有继承了前代神奇的太极推手功夫。我们只有认真地鉴赏分析这些接班人们的打拳推手的视频，才能懂得明白什么是传统太极的真东西。


Thoughts caused by True and False Trends of Thought
2022.11.4.
Tai Chi has a very classic and distinctive cultural attribute, and Tai Chi push hands has a very real traditional inheritance attribute. The cultural attribute refers to the classic cultural theory of Tai Chi, which includes the old boxing theory and the Tai Chi theory of the ancestors in the school.

Cultural theory is the soul of Taijiquan. Taijiquan played without cultural theory arming the mind is like missing the soul. It has no taste of boxing, nor does it have the spirituality of boxing.

Knees are broken, and some feel that the vitality is lost prematurely, and if you are not old, you will be prematurely old; the traditional inheritance attribute refers to the video of the traditional heir. One of the prominent features of traditional Tai Chi is that there are sects and sects.

Each sect and sect has been passed down from generation to generation, and each generation has successors. Facts have proved that qualified successors of traditional Taijimen, such as Wang Yongquan, Zhu Huaiyuan, Ma Yueliang, Ma Changxun, Li Jingwu and their descendants who have been handed down from generation to generation, not only have classic and distinctive cultural theory levels, but also inherit the previous The ancient and miraculous Tai Chi push hands Kung Fu.

Only by carefully appreciating and analyzing the videos of boxing and pushing hands of these successors, can we understand what is the real thing of traditional Tai Chi.

[ambulocetus]

Windwalker, you seem very confident that you have the correct position in this matter. I actually envy that; I am never that confident about anything. Perhaps if you told me why you are so confident, then I will be confident too, if I find your reasons convincing.

[windwalker]

Windwalker, you seem very confident that you have the correct position in this matter. I actually envy that; I am never that confident about anything. Perhaps if you told me why you are so confident, then I will be confident too, if I find your reasons convincing.

Have my own postion, others have theirs

Just sharing some thoughts ,

Feel everyone has to find their own way,,,just sharing some thoughts on mine...


Have a long history of my own explorations and findings..

Almost all studying anything BJJ, Judo ect...want to know or understand the method is in fact authentic...proven ect...

The matrix some use to do this, depends on intended use, need, and focus...
Some might be confused or not clear, why or what they are practicing for, what is the intended usage.
even some teachers, not understanding this can lead to bad outcomes..

Lived in China, Taiwan among other places, for the most part only work with ethnic Chinese in the US
many not able to speak English with long backgrounds in taiji practice from their countries of origin

My skill sets accord with those I interact with...

In Taiwan..A comment long ago, an impromptu demo at friends taiji gym in Taiwan..

I felt so lucky to have the chance
listening to you open-heartedly sharing your Taichi experience. As a chinese, I
used to think Taichi is very oriental. Without some backgrounds in Buddhism and
ancient Chinese bibles like I-Ching, it is almost impossible to enter the hall
of Taichi, let alone grasping its inner meaning. I was so surprised to see a
westerner having much deeper understandings in ancient chinese philosophy than
me. Things you shared with us are in the same paradigm as what Teacher Chen
taught us, but the way you interpreted gives me a new prospect.

Teacher Chen

Find the reading of others thoughts here quite interesting....
Even those I may disagree with....

[ambulocetus]

I like to be proven wrong because that means I get to learn something, and I like to learn. I'm always open to having my mind changed when I encounter convincing evidence, because that also means that I get to learn something. I look forward to learning more here.

[johnwang]

Some people may say that Taiji is suitable for old people. That also mean if you train Taiji, you may belong to the old people group. I'm not young, but I don't want to be reminded that I'm getting old (or is old already). How do you guys remove this kind of "old age feeling" during your Taiji training.

For example, when I work on the foot sweep solo, I feel young. Why? Because I can feel my body is stretching (the opposite of shrinking).

[johnwang]

one question,,,do you or others understand, know, or use the concept of "qi"

To be honest with you. I have no interest in "using the concept of Qi". Instead of to spend time in it, I prefer to spend my time in "how to force my opponent's one arm to jam his other arm". There are so many interested research in CMA. Qi using is not on my list.

[marvin8]

I don't think that's a big deal. Because, skilled fighters can use yin, ting, na, hua without contact anyways. The politically correct answer is "I suspend my judgment until I see it in sparring or a fight."

when you don't have any idea what you're talking about (whether you know it or not ... an exercise left for the reader), a very wise, prudent answer, does not matter whether or not it is "politically correct".

sorry, my comment isn't directed to you or anyone in particular. a lot of people on this board seem incredibly certain. they aren't able to empty their teacup or even realize it. my comment is: IYKYK, but if you don't know, you don't know, and in some cases you don't know that you don't know. (this is a "general you" ---- those who aren't sure will have to figure it out for themselves for better or worse). not necessarily a criticism or looking down at anyone - this comment includes me. at many times in these arts, I thought I knew something, but it turned out to be either a layer or just wrong (but not necessarily not-useful).

What people are certain about, believe, know or don't know is irrelevant to whether windwalker's demo is useful in defending one's self. Those who aren't sure, don't believe, can or can't do don't have to do anything. It's up to windwalker to prove windwalker's "work, skill sets and jin" without using informal fallacies.

A: (johnwang) Do you think what windwalker is demoing can be real?
B: I suspend my judgment until I see it in sparring or a fight. (I have posted demos/drills and their skills being used in fights.)

At 33:09,

Peter: Cool, awesome let's test (sparring/fighting) that. And if you've got something cool that I don't know about that it works, I'm gonna put it in my game. So, thank you for teaching me that. Thank you for coming. So not, that's BS that won't work. But, hey fantastic let’s test that out. Let's see and I'd love to learn from you if that works.
Rokas: But, the testing has to happen.
Peter: Well yeah or if it doesn't happen why should you believe anybody. It's just make-believe land.

Martial Arts Journey
Jan 5, 2019

While many of us consider ourselves good critical thinkers in this talk with Peter Boghossian it becomes quickly clear that critical thinking is not as self-evident as it seems, be it in martial arts or any other field. Join me and Peter Boghossian in this talk on how to develop critical thinking, how to be honest with yourself, how to test your ideas against reality and much more.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gmt2Bz9tqVc