Force your opponent's one arm to jam his other arm

[johnwang]

If you can force your opponent's one arm to jam his other arm, you will have 1 free arm while your opponent has no free arms. You can do a lot of things after that.

Will it be more value (or more fun) to develop such skill than to develop "no contact combat"?

Your thought?

[origami_itto]

I love it personally. Whenever they try to act against me i put them in their own way. Then they have to get around themselves to get to me which gives me plenty of time to counter.

[johnwang]

I wish we can discuss more principle/strategy subject than to discuss subject that cannot help us in combat such as:

- Whether "no touch combat" is real or not.
- ...

[origami_itto]

Sure. This brings to mind a related concept.

When we move, we're usually thinking about the part of our body that we are doing something with. Fist, foot, etc.

But to move through space we have to move our whole body. There are places on your body that have to move through particular points in space to accomplish your "unrelated" movement but that are weak due to position or angle or just plain anatomy.

These points that must move to support the tactical movement but that don't have a lot lot support themselves become control points, either directly or by using the leverage of a limb to target the weak point.

[Bao]

"If you can force your opponent's one arm to jam his other arm, you will have 1 free arm while your opponent has no free arms."

This is why you never cross your hands over your own centreline to the other side of the body in Taijiquan. It's too easy for an opponent to take advantage of this. In push hands especially. Have done this mistake myself and got caught. A good opponent will definitely see it and use it.

[johnwang]

This is why you never cross your hands over your own centreline to the other side of the body in Taijiquan.

But inside out move such as "cloud hand (outward circles)" is only 1/2 of the case. The other 1/2 is "double inward circles" which will casue your arm to move cross your centerline.

Also when you throw a hook punch, your arm is crossing over your centerline.

When your opponent's left arm cross his own right arm, you have to move your right hand to your left to use his left arm to jam his right arm. You are crossing your right arm over your centerline at that moment.

[origami_itto]

A static centerline is such an outdated concept, though. Your hand is ALWAYS across your center from some perspective.

[johnwang]

The Taiji left/right striking tiger has arm crossed the centerline.

[everything]

taijiquan has cross hands. in 2-man san shou form, there is a move where you "block" opponent's right arm with your raised left arm, your right arm "crosses centerline" kind of sneaking under, your hands are temporarily "crossed", your right arm drags opponent's right arm in a sort of roll-back, pull down motion. then you pretty much have his back and can do whatever throw or whatever. it may look like they have 1v2, but really you end up having 2v1. essentially it is like Cross Hands to Embrace Tiger, Return to Mountain, but it doesn't have to have that 2nd move. like a wrestling 2 on 1 arm drag - whatever you do after that is up to you. this was easy to do at judo randori against beginner/intermediate students in my opinion/experience. i did this to beginner and black belts (some of whom should really be considered beginners at MA). they are expecting you to "fight" their attempt to "grip". they have no idea what's happening when you appear to kind of wing chun block their reaching arm. it would seem to give no advantage. it's very hard for anybody to notice the R arm kind of sneak under. against "good opponents" who kind of just stand there and give you nothing or know about this, idk.

[windwalker]

Link directly to

The power of Neijiaquan in six directions VS The power line of Chinese wrestling


Might help to understand the concept of line vs circle.

[origami_itto]

Link directly to

The power of Neijiaquan in six directions VS The power line of Chinese wrestling


Might help to understand the concept of line vs circle.

Could we get a copy in, say, like... Italian?

[windwalker]

Thought it would be easy to see what he's talking about....

JW or another native speaker should they want to can translate the general idea.

another of his clips....with english subtitles

peng jin

Like the teacher and his approach,
helping to bring an understanding to IMA practices...

[Appledog]

Today we worked on applications of brush knee and twist step from yang style. I had A throw a right punch from right bow stance. We practiced mid-level block against the strike from the outside and inside. We then practiced the move we informally call "insert," which I believe is called "carrying the sack" outside. In this position no matter which mid level block one may perform (inside or outside) one may immediately perform brush knee and twist step to defend against the attack and the opponent's arms will become jammed.

We then attempted to perform the technique "rooster sits on fence" or whatever it's called, which is like "insert" but from the top down. It's called something else in Pao Chui, I can't remember (Insert left palm into well?)

Anyways, whenever we tried it, whatever the response would be, if we performed brush knee and twist step it would jam the opponent's arms, in the manner Adam Hsu demonstrates in his push hands video ("My final goal...") time: 4:35 below:



What an interesting result!

I often find that suprising applications come out of push hands and experimentation like this. Just be careful not to apply force but to meditate over Tao te Ching chapter 10, so you do not inadvertently cause damage to your opponent.

[johnwang]

What an interesting result!

I often find that suprising applications come out of push hands and experimentation like this. Just be careful not to apply force but to meditate over Tao te Ching chapter 10, so you do not inadvertently cause damage to your opponent.

Is that Taiji push hands supposed to look like?

If you can damage your opponent just by doing this, your opponent must be very old, weak, and sick.

[marvin8]

If you can force your opponent's one arm to jam his other arm, you will have 1 free arm while your opponent has no free arms. You can do a lot of things after that.



Will it be more value (or more fun) to develop such skill than to develop "no contact combat"?

Your thought?

"No contact" skills have value or fun. Trained fighters may use yin, ting, na, hua without contact then throw on contact. Not using force (contact) to "jam" > using force, Not crossing arms > crossing arms

Extract from "A Force of 1,000 Pounds can be deflected with a Force of Four Ounces:”

According to that law, if there is a force of 1,000 pounds, it must be exerted on something (or somebody) that (or who) exerts 1,000 pounds back. Here, the force that the opponent exerts would be on you, and you of course would exert an equal and opposite force back on him. But the main idea is not to interact with the opponent in a way that can cause injury to yourself. The goal is to exert minimal force on the opponent and not interfere with his motion—only redirecting his attack to clear your body. Using minimal force on the opponent means that you don’t need a lot of strength. It also means that he will, by Newton’s third law, use minimum force on you, which lessens the chance that you will be injured. Not interfering with the opponent’s motion means that he will be more likely to over-extend and lose his balance. Then, he will either fall or pull back. If he pulls back, you can easily push or hit him.

Jam his other arm may be done through no contact distance control and circling.

If I already know what you’re going to throw, it’s really easy to counter. Range eliminates the process what they can potentially throw. On top of that if I actually circle to the right, I’m only fighting half a person. I am really sitting on a jab, hook or left leg. If you know what’s coming it’s so much easier to fight somebody.

At Alex Volkanovski vs Korean Zombie, Alex (UFC Featherweight Champion) drills and executes:

1. Starting from outside fighting range, Alex steps right leading Zombie (in orthodox stance) to step left 2. Alex raises lead hand (yin) 3. listens (ting) for Zombie to shift his weight to the back foot (double weight) 4. Alex controls Zombie's rear arm and center with his lead hand (na, hua) 5. then hop steps and issues (fa) left front cut/osoto gari:

Problems with using force:

Thomas Marx - Original Jeet Kune Do IFO
Dec 17, 2022

The best, super, advanced level something...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGF5fhQThug