the rum soaked fist: internal martial arts forum

I've noticed there is some difference among folks in how the back leg ends up when in a forward weighted bow stance.

Straight or bent? What weighting?

How do you do it in your style?

"How do you do it in your style?"

How I do something depends. However, I do not recognise "style" in Tai Chi, so what I do, or how I do it, does not depend on "style".

Bao wrote:"How do you do it in your style?"

How I do something depends. However, I do not recognise "style" in Tai Chi, so what I do, or how I do it, does not depend on "style".

The way you do it is your style, right? No need to be pedantic.

What do you do with your leg, usually?

In a broader forward posture as above, I should have my front foot forward, slightly turned inwards, and the back foot at a 45° angle.

edited:


rear knee "bent"

I should have been more clear. I am more interested in the straight vs bent...

origami_itto wrote:I should have been more clear. I am more interested in the straight vs bent...

You may straight your back leg (release) for 1/10 second according for your application. You should keep it bend (compress) before and after your application.

When you train solo form, you should do it as:

bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> ...

"I am more interested in the straight vs bent..."

If you don't sink there's no jin.

Bao wrote:If you don't sink there's no jin.

Agree! If there is no compress, there is no release.

johnwang wrote:

origami_itto wrote:I should have been more clear. I am more interested in the straight vs bent...

You may straight your back leg (release) for 1/10 second according for your application. You should keep it bend (compress) before and after your application.

When you train solo form, you should do it as:

bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> ...

Bao wrote:If you don't sink there's no jin.

Agree! If there is no compress, there is no release.

In the OP I believe Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg, without "straight (release):"


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4WwTVNqXAk&t=43s

origami_itto wrote:I should have been more clear. I am more interested in the straight vs bent...

Interesting to add, "... If so, why do you straighten your leg? Do you ever align your head over the front knee?

marvin8 wrote:Biomechanically, ... Also, there are advantages to bending the rear leg (e.g., rotation, head movement), while having the weight and head on the front foot.

An important concept in some MAs, head movement (or get your head off the centerline).

MMA Time
Jan 3, 2017


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4o5iI_8MU1U

marvin8 wrote:In the OP I believe Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg, without "straight (release)."

It depends on your application. The bow-arrow stance can be the end of many different leg skills (such as "spring").

johnwang wrote:

marvin8 wrote:In the OP I believe Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg, without "straight (release)."

It depends on your application. The bow-arrow stance can be the end of many different leg skills (such as "spring").

I think that's a perfectly valid technique and example of leg skill.

I don't know that the particular application is a part of the regular taijiquan curriculum/form. Similar sort of throws, sure, but I'd think we'd use bump/kao a little differently. You can even see in the example that he's actually making contact using his hip.

Although. maybe I'm not considering things like "turn and kick with heel" that some do starting with throwing the free leg back and then turning into it.

Still though, seems a little different. I think I'd see this sort of throw more as an expression of something like "needle at sea bottom", which still has a bent leg.

johnwang wrote:

origami_itto wrote:I should have been more clear. I am more interested in the straight vs bent...

You may straight your back leg (release) for 1/10 second according for your application. You should keep it bend (compress) before and after your application.

When you train solo form, you should do it as:

bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> bend (compress) -> straight (release) -> ...

Bao wrote:If you don't sink there's no jin.

Agree! If there is no compress, there is no release.

So you're saying you disagree with Dong? He "should train straight (release)" and "there is no release" with a bent leg? Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b4WwTVNqXAk&t=43s

origami_itto wrote:

johnwang wrote:

marvin8 wrote:In the OP I believe Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg, without "straight (release)."

It depends on your application. The bow-arrow stance can be the end of many different leg skills (such as "spring").

... Although, maybe I'm not considering things like "turn and kick with heel" that some do starting with throwing the free leg back and then turning into it.

Still though, seems a little different. I think I'd see this sort of throw more as an expression of something like "needle at sea bottom", which still has a bent leg.

I don't believe that throw requires 2 steps (1 stealing step) -> 2 leg springs (from bow & arrow) -> throw.

Split Hip Ogoshi — shuffle step (bow & arrow from front) -> hip throw:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbVYDA2rB3o&t=3m12s

marvin8 wrote:I don't believe that throw requires 2 steps (1 stealing step) -> 2 leg springs (from bow & arrow) -> throw.

That clip is for a teacher who teaches a throw to his students in slow motion.

In the following clip, you can see there is no stealing step but a "hop".



In high level, there exist no stealing step but a "hop".

marvin8 wrote:So you're saying you disagree with Dong? He "should train straight (release)" and "there is no release" with a bent leg? Dong "releases" with a bent rear leg:

It's distance issue. The one on the right has more reach than the one on the left.

3-7 stance -> 4-6 stance -> horse stance - bow-arrow stance with bend back leg -> bow-arrow stance with straight back leg -> monkey stance -> golden rooster stance.

When you throw a punch at your opponent with bow-arrow stance, if you straight your back leg, you will get that exter 1-3 inches reach than if you keep your back leg bend. Sometime you do need that extra 1-3 inches to be able to land your punch on your opponent's body.

If you can make your back arm, chest, fore arm into a straight line with bow-arrow stance with straight back leg, you can have the maximum body stretching and maximum reach. That's the long fist principle. Since Taiji came from long fist, this principle also apply on Taiji too