beng vs. pao quan

[Quigga]

Recently I noticed that it's not the body holding up the body, but some kind of energy. The body does it's own thing, but that thing is inspired by energy which is coordinated and controlled by mind.

It takes much less effort than collapsing or other ways of attempting to achieve relaxation instead of actually being relaxed and upright with a regular damn posture.

Body is being held upright by an upright energy which is moved by a sincere mind. The upright energy consisting of Yin Yang mixture. The mind getting accustomed to non-dual states without losing operational functionality.

Ryabko showed it once with two long sticks. He held them to the sides of his central channel. Then swaying a bit to that side, a bit to this side, until all 3 are balanced.

I also noticed that your tits / chest need to be naturally counterweighted by your buttocks. The arms feel like they are a bit in front of the body centre line continuum (wtf is that word), the legs feel they are bit behind that.

So even though the mind controls everything, it's actually very hidden and in the background.

There's so much more to learn than I ever imagined. But it's also kinda cool.

[Quigga]

Oh and the chest feels the slightest bit sunken in and hollow. Can't see it in the mirror. Feels like you're gently hugging something in the middle of your chest. Also makes me less emotional and creates some welcomed distance to outside events.

Stand upright, relax, inhale, exhale, no artificially produced hollows or projections, observe, let go, feel, move.

[johnwang]

I have no idea what you want me to respond on.

I do like you to respond my question. Do you agree with the following?

If you train for

- combat correctly, you will get body connection by default (6 harmony).
- health, whether your body is connected or not will have nothing to do with your good health or bad health.

In other words, when you train solo form for "body connection", are you training for combat or for health?

The reason that I ask this question is when I train drill (I don't train form), I either train for power generation, or speed generation. I have never trained for "body connection".

[everything]

Oh and the chest feels the slightest bit sunken in and hollow. Can't see it in the mirror. Feels like you're gently hugging something in the middle of your chest. Also makes me less emotional and creates some welcomed distance to outside events.

Stand upright, relax, inhale, exhale, no artificially produced hollows or projections, observe, let go, feel, move.

it sounds like you are doing well

[Bao]

In other words, when you train solo form for "body connection", are you training for combat or for health?

IMO, you should train for combat. When you train for "combat", the result is health. If you practice for health only, you can practice qigong or yoga, why martial arts?

The martial arts practice gives the practitioner a better sense of balance, a better use of the body, better coordination etc. Those aspects will make the practitioners more healthy. If you train "only for health" you will lose the whole engine that drives the health aspects.

I either train for power generation, or speed generation. I have never trained for "body connection".

I practice "body connection" for better power generation.

[Appledog]

Recently I noticed that it's not the body holding up the body, but some kind of energy. The body does it's own thing, but that thing is inspired by energy which is coordinated and controlled by mind. [...] Body is being held upright by an upright energy which is moved by a sincere mind. The upright energy consisting of Yin Yang mixture. The mind getting accustomed to non-dual states without losing operational functionality.

If this was true, then in order for you to maintain proper physical structure to deliver and take blows the body has to do different "it's own thing" because the external form is different. That's a hard physical requirement because your balance is shifting in different ways between beng and pao.

[Quigga]

You've completely missed the point apparently.

I can do spinal wave power generation in normal and reverse - Bo Lang Jin and Fan Lang Jin - just fine. Generating punching / pushing force via either tucking then untucking or untucking then tucking the tail of the spine.

I didn't imply that the physical body moves outside of a relationship of the energy within it. Just saying that one's personality should step away from trying to micromanage movement to just relaxing and letting it happen, observing the process and deepen it.

I'm not that far along the way yet, but imo in the end you will have no broken position without power, even though it may look that way. Just by 'being' upright and thoroughly relaxing, cultivating the mind then letting this nourished mind cultivate the body.

None of the real benefits of IMA will be reaped without meditation / Nei Gong / inner work imo.

Everything - I've been worse, let's put it that way .

[origami_itto]

Recently I noticed that it's not the body holding up the body, but some kind of energy. The body does it's own thing, but that thing is inspired by energy which is coordinated and controlled by mind.

Makes perfect sense. Why rely on easily observable and well trod scientific knowledge accumulated over hundreds of years when you can just make up something that adds absolutely nothing of function and is completely undetectable?

[Quigga]

Then just call it Science Boxing, learn from MMA stuff exclusively and be done with it. Why bother with IMA if you disregard central aspects of it?

Thank God not everything is graspable with scientific tools.

[origami_itto]

Because IMA or not, we're dealing with reality here. Reality has rules. You can make up whatever you like to describe your subjective sensation but don't make the mistake if thinking its anything but that.

Muscles and bones hold your body up. Qi just regulates how hard they work to do it. You don't need to describe some mysterious energy that can't be perceived or detected or shown to affect the world in any way whatever in order to explain the phenomenon.

We're not 17th century peasants or cave dwelling Neanderthals with no means just spinning emotionally satisfying explanations of the rain and thunder God's activity and creating rituals to appease them.

We stand on the shoulders of giants and some folks just want to play in the mud.
What does your teacher say about all that?

[everything]

all of our muscles and bones are moved by "energy". if you don't have the "energy", you are lying down dead or sick.

neijia "begins" once you start to grasp a little of the neigong. yes, it is "subjective", not "objective" in the real of reproducible experiments (recall there is no such thing as "Science", only reproducible experiments that try to reject null hypotheses; they don't fully grasp "reality" ... they're still trying to map out the "natural laws" ... so far, a leading theory is it's all "strings vibrating" - underneath your atoms, your "Qi", your muscles/bones standing there). but even if you don't like "ultimate Physics", just recall that "energy" moves your "muscles". That is the "reality".

[origami_itto]

all of our muscles and bones are moved by "energy". if you don't have the "energy", you are lying down dead or sick.

neijia "begins" once you start to grasp a little of the neigong. yes, it is "subjective", not "objective" in the real of reproducible experiments (recall there is no such thing as "Science", only reproducible experiments that try to reject null hypotheses; they don't fully grasp "reality" ... they're still trying to map out the "natural laws" ... so far, a leading theory is it's all "strings vibrating" - underneath your atoms, your "Qi", your muscles/bones standing there). but even if you don't like "ultimate Physics", just recall that "energy" moves your "muscles". That is the "reality".

Yes, muscles are controlled by energy and consume energy to contract and produce energy.
These are not the same "energy" and they are all measurable and fairly well understood. There is no need to invent an additional energy.

It's better to work within and help expand that body of knowledge based on observable phenomenon and falsifiable theories, instead of just running with whatever we feel good about.

[GrahamB]

Energy is produced in our cells by the mitochondia. Biological fact. That's "qi" right there. It was found a long time ago

https://www.genome.gov/genetics-glossary/Mitochondria

[Doc Stier]

...one's personality should step away from trying to micromanage movement to just relaxing and letting it happen, observing the process and deepen it.

None of the real benefits of IMA will be reaped without meditation / Nei Gong / inner work imo.

Excellent points. You can't force internal cultivation to develop and manifest, but can only establish the proper conditions which will allow it to gradually do so over time with consistent, correct training.

Meditation, both standing and seated practices, is crucial to observing the process. Insights thus acquired can then be transposed into the physical movements as well, thereby producing a harmony of internal and external components.

[Quigga]

Because IMA or not, we're dealing with reality here. Reality has rules. You can make up whatever you like to describe your subjective sensation but don't make the mistake if thinking its anything but that.

Muscles and bones hold your body up. Qi just regulates how hard they work to do it. You don't need to describe some mysterious energy that can't be perceived or detected or shown to affect the world in any way whatever in order to explain the phenomenon.

We're not 17th century peasants or cave dwelling Neanderthals with no means just spinning emotionally satisfying explanations of the rain and thunder God's activity and creating rituals to appease them.

We stand on the shoulders of giants and some folks just want to play in the mud.
What does your teacher say about all that?

If you say so, it must certainly be right... Have you considered that both things can be true at the same time? That there is something going on that is not up to quantification or scientific assessment, but that that thing doesn't negate the validity of the scientific way?

Well it can be perceived. Just not detected by instruments. Btw, I'm not here to claim the "paranormal 1 million dollar award" by showing telekinetic abilities or stuff

Why so prejudiced against 17th century peasants and cave dwelling Neanderthals? I'm sure they were cool people with interesting stories and stuff to share. I could see myself having a good time with them. That is, if they didn't attack me on sight bc I look and smell so different lol. But some mammoth steaks? Count me in. Or 17th century raw butter or cheese? Yum.

So don't be afraid of falling off of those giant's shoulders (perhaps we just have different giants lol ). When was the last time you played in the dirt?

I have more than one teacher so their opinions differ quite a bit. Sorry that pinholing me doesn't work that easily.