Without Touch

[Trip]

I don't know if they're using Qi
but they seem to be honestly moving people without touch.
Or, at least only using a very light touch

[25] TRAVERSING EMPTINESS

This energy is so extraordinary that it verges on the miraculous and has to be seen to be believed, truly a case of mind over matter.
When one who has a high level of skill issues with this energy, there only needs to be a “ha!” and the opponent’s feet leave the ground and he falls back.

This happens because the one being issued against had already been lured into mentally dropping his guard, leaving him with no capacity for resistance.

The technique will only work if the one being issued against has been trained in basic energies such as sticking, and then once a “ha!” is sounded, he immediately retreats because of his own sense that something is coming [i.e. will only work by taking advantage of the startled overreacting of a novice].

Otherwise this kind of issuing will have no effect.

Although this energy is subtle and invisible, it is not something you ardently need to strive for, for it is really just a parlor trick.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... en-yanlin/


Other Types of No Touch

A juke is a move in most forms of American football used to evade a tackler by deception,
and thus without need of a stiff arm.

Feint – a deceptive blow or movement during a fight
A feint is a movement with deceptive intention.
It's when you show your opponent an intention to do something, but then you do something else.

[origami_itto]

Feints like that take advantage of highly tuned reflexes. Wouldn't necessarily even work on somebody without a certain level of reflexes, but then, it wouldn't be necessary on a less capable player, right? The Taijiquan classics talk about feints.

I think that esteemed master said all we need to say about that other stuff.

[wayne hansen]

I have done no touch throws in both pushing and real fighting
However that is not what is being shown
There must be the threat of danger for no touch to work
Not just standing and pointing
If you didn’t respond in the right way in pushing my teacher would strike and strike hard
Bringing that sense of danger to play
Hong said
A student should be stung often and hurt occasionally
That’s why I don’t like padded stick and knife fighting it makes people braver that they would be in a real life situation
The thing with pushing is the touch should be more and more subtle to pass on by hand the teachers skill
No touch no transference
If you can do it without touch just sit on chairs in different rooms

[johnwang]

Can you kill someone without touching? If you can, the 21th century law should be updated.

A: I didn't kill him.
B: But you used LKJ and killed him 100 miles away.

[marvin8]

I don't know if they're using Qi
but they seem to be honestly moving people without touch.
Or, at least only using a very light touch

Boxing example (not taiji) of moving opponent without touch, then issuing.

1. yin/lure: give the opponent false impressions, making him feel like he can get you, and leading him to go where you want him to go
2. ting/listen: feel or detect what the opponent wants to do
3. na/control: get the opponent under your control (usually means keep him off-balanced)
4. hua/dissolve: neutralize the attacking force
5. fa/release: attack

In Garcia vs Fonseca, Garcia:

1) lures (yin) Fonseca by playing defense (guard up) and shifting weight to his front foot (zhan/adhere).
2) listens (ting) for Fonseca to throw a jab->cross (na/control)
3) rolls back (nian/stick) and intercepts by moving head and weight to the back foot (hua/neutralize) while simultaneously issuing lead hook (fa).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6l50xwmzkg

[Appledog]

[25] TRAVERSING EMPTINESS

[...]Otherwise this kind of issuing will have no effect.[...]
[...] for it is really just a parlor trick.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... en-yanlin/

A and B are not the whole story.

C) Since it is the result of conditioning and training it is possible to create a conditioning or training method which is not susceptible to this kind of issuing.

[Doc Stier]

[25] TRAVERSING EMPTINESS

[...]Otherwise this kind of issuing will have no effect.[...]
[...] for it is really just a parlor trick.

https://brennantranslation.wordpress.co ... en-yanlin/

A and B are not the whole story.

C) Since it is the result of conditioning and training it is possible to create a conditioning or training method which is not susceptible to this kind of issuing.

Agreed. And some would say that such methods already exist, but are either unknown to or untrained by many practitioners today, because they are no longer an integral part of the curriculum among those who practice primarily for health or self-cultivation, rather than for the development of fighting skills.

[Mrwawa]

Nobody has developed no touch qi blast as well as footballers. Nobody!

[Trip]

Nobody has developed no touch qi blast as well as footballers. Nobody!

Mrwawa
Maybe it is just me,
but I couldn't see the image you wanted to post.
It was a link to a where the image was
but not a link to a specific image

I fiddled around...
Is this gif you wanted to post?



It's funny!

But, there is a difference

In the first video
They're not faking it.

The players are really moving their opponents around without touching them
At the same time
that their opponent
is honestly trying very hard to stop them
from achieving their goal

[Dmitri]

You can also do miracles with people's movement without touch by pointing a gun at them

[origami_itto]

You can also do miracles with people's movement without touch by pointing a gun at them

The purest expression of martial artistry is to remove the opponent's will to fight.

[Trip]

You can also do miracles with people's movement without touch by pointing a gun at them

The purest expression of martial artistry is to remove the opponent's will to fight.

Not quite what I was aiming at
But, Excellent Points!

[jimmy]

[marvin8]

I don't know if they're using Qi
but they seem to be honestly moving people without touch.
Or, at least only using a very light touch

Boxing example (not taiji) of moving opponent without touch, then issuing...

Why we only see tai chi today without fighting ability? The following video is about the famous champion “Mike Tyson…” Don’t be misled by kung fu movies…

OK!!! What is relationship between counter punch and tai chi? Why I use so much time to explain it? The essence of tai chi is counter punch. Someone familiar with counter punch will not attack at any moment! Only attack when his enemy starts to attack.

Let’s see the following video. This is a move of tai chi. It's called Bang lang chue. You can see the person with black shorts [Lyoto Machida]. He does an empty skill (let his enemy lose control of this body) then fight back. This video is a very good expression of Yin Jin Ro Kong (empty skill). Through the video from beginning, you can see the value for Empty skill. Why tai chi teach people so hardly to practice empty skill? The above video shows you the answer. We empty the enemy (let him lose his balance control) with contact.

To create a good chance to do the counter punch at that moment, Tyson uses another way to empty his enemy "without" contact. Keep the distance. Use fast reaction ability of body to dodge enemy's attack. If dodging is success, it can create empty state of his enemy and attack at this moment. The way of tai chi to empty is contactness. We touch enemy's body and empty him. It needs unity and soft body.

Why Tyson chooses to use empty without contact? Because, empty with contact is more difficult. Once you have contact with your enemy, his power will affect your control to your body, you will use power passively. We will try to move our enemy with power by instinct. Try to move his body, let him loose control of his body ( fight fire with fire). But the result is opposite, we lose our control to body. This is what I mentioned before, the problem of "force bridge."

What makes counter punch so powerful is we let our enemy lose body control and have full control of our body at the same time. By this way, you can get the result "KO with one punch." Once you use power when contact happens, there is no tai chi at all.

Back to the original question, why tai chi can't be used to fight? The answer is easy. You don't have strong body to use tai chi. It's a kind of high difficulty skill to use. It depends on real fighting experience. The timing to use. Familiar to the move. The expectation is very high. To get the benefit of tai chi, the conclusion is there is no good or bad about the skill. A punch without any skill still can kill sb. There is no reason that tai chi doesn't work in fighting. The point is to understand the advantage and disadvantage of tai chi to get higher tai chi skill…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeU7HvIPqqc

[marvin8]

Excerpt from "Sorting out Taiji, Bagua and Xingyi:"

3. Similarities and Differences in Neijia Fighting

...In Taijiquan, the high level fighting technique goal is Kong Dong (empty motion) or Kong Jin (empty force, though not to be confused with Lin Kong Jin, the idea of moving an opponent without touching), which is the most typical feature of Taiji fighting skill. It means to let the opponent feel something he thinks he can get, but cannot really get because it is empty. It should induce in the opponent a surprised and frightened feeling, like when one walks on the top of a high building and suddenly steps on an empty place. Usually the skill is described as "lure in and fill in emptiness." Here "lure in" is a key concept, it is not "force in." The feeling is just like to suddenly appear and/or disappear. One lets the opponent feel something, but get nothing. All Taiji skills should meet this goal. It should follow the basic Taiji principle as Yin and Yang supplement each other and exchange.

The technical foundation of Kong Jin is Zhan (adhere up), Nian (stick to), Lian (link), and Sui (follow). If one does not exhibit these attributes, one is not considered to practice Taiji in the right way. In application, changes of Yin-Yang happen on the inside of the touching point between your opponent and you, but your physical body may just show really small even invisible movement.

NTUMA Martial Arts
Mar 2, 2021

Do you really have volley power??
(Click CC and set to English captions.)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07alQrNb3_Y